Mechanics review

[CecilOne]

Just to refine and clarify mechanics as written, not to debate the merits of any instruction or one book versus the other.
Main interest NFHS/ASA, but add NCAA if you like.

Are these really taboos?
- calling OBS at a base by the PU
- calling OBS at HP by the BU

- BU calling infield fly
- BU signaling but not calling infield fly

- PU making a call at 3rd from slightly in foul ground
- Same, runner returning after rounding

Multiple runners, lead runner to 3rd, no play at home:
- second play; PU or not
- first play after possible play at 1st not made; PU or not

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Just to refine and clarify mechanics as written, not to debate the merits of any instruction or one book versus the other.

Are you just asking us to vote our opinions?

ASA:
Are these really taboos?
- calling OBS at a base by the PU - NO
- calling OBS at HP by the BU - YES

- BU calling infield fly - YES
- BU signaling but not calling infield fly - NO

- PU making a call at 3rd from slightly in foul ground - Depends on the call in question and the situation
- Same, runner returning after rounding - ditto

Multiple runners, lead runner to 3rd, no play at home:
- second play; PU or not - I pregame this, every game.
- first play after possible play at 1st not made; PU or not - First play is BU's (assuming 1st play not at plate)

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Are you just asking us to vote our opinions?
Not really, more how the book is interpreted.


ASA:
Are these really taboos?
- PU making a call at 3rd from slightly in foul ground - Depends on the call in question and the situation


Multiple runners, lead runner to 3rd, no play at home:
- second play; PU or not - I pregame this, every game.

Although what I expected, I am surprised at everyone's complete agreement.
Please expand on those above.

[CecilOne]

How do you handle this?
B slot, runner goes to 2nd on passed ball. Do you continue to C immediately or stay at 2nd and actually wait for ball back to pitcher?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

How do you handle this?
B slot, runner goes to 2nd on passed ball. Do you continue to C immediately or stay at 2nd and actually wait for ball back to pitcher?

I know it's not standard, but I'm seeing it more lately --- I rim the infield on this play, getting to the SS side of the bag ahead of the runner (but not all the way to C yet), watching ball, pitcher primarily and watching for the touch of 2nd and/or obstruction by glancing over.

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I know it's not standard, but I'm seeing it more lately --- I rim the infield on this play, getting to the SS side of the bag ahead of the runner (but not all the way to C yet), watching ball, pitcher primarily and watching for the touch of 2nd and/or obstruction by glancing over.

On a PB where there will be no play on the runner coming in to 2B I do this as well. If she continues on to 3B I am ready to follow, and if there is a throw to 2B to try to pick her off rounding too far I am in the correct spot for the possible tag call as she dives back into 2B.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

How do you handle this?
B slot, runner goes to 2nd on passed ball. Do you continue to C immediately or stay at 2nd and actually wait for ball back to pitcher?

Stay with the runner by rounding the base. If there is going to be a play there, this will give you the perfect view of the front edge of the base.

[DRJ1960]

Does anyone cut inside behind the runner as she approaches 2nd?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Although what I expected, I am surprised at everyone's complete agreement.
Please expand on those above.

The first play, I'm not sure what situation you are referring to - PU could be at 3rd for a number of reasons, and could be right on the play, or 50 feet away - so my answer depends on what kind of play you're referring to.

The second one, I ALWAYS include in the pregame that I, as PU, will cover the 2nd play at 3rd if BU is taken to 1st for the 1st play. As BU, I describe the scenario to partner and get his input (sometimes they do it, sometimes they don't like it and expect BU to take both calls). It may not be ASA standard, but it's at least 50/50 here, so I want to make sure I'm on the same page as partner.

[CecilOne]

How about this? BU in A when batter walks.

Why is there an objection to the BU moving off the line into the infield before the BR gets to 1st? Or, is there really a taught objection (as "honor the runner")?
It seems to me moving off the line is better prep for an advance/attempt to 2nd.

If this is an item, is it an NCAA thing?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

How about this? BU in A when batter walks.

Why is there an objection to the BU moving off the line into the infield before the BR gets to 1st? Or, is there really a taught objection (as "honor the runner")?
It seems to me moving off the line is better prep for an advance/attempt to 2nd.

If this is an item, is it an NCAA thing?

We have one guy that waits - I asked him why and he didn't know why. Everyone else I know moves toward (but not TO) B as BR is heading to first.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

How about this? BU in A when batter walks.

Why is there an objection to the BU moving off the line into the infield before the BR gets to 1st? Or, is there really a taught objection (as "honor the runner")?
It seems to me moving off the line is better prep for an advance/attempt to 2nd.

If this is an item, is it an NCAA thing?

It is an NCAA mechanic based on the three umpires system (the NCAA manual standard). When B walks with no runners on, U1 doesn't have 2nd base responsibility, U3 does (same as base hit when B becomes a BR). And BR can legally and safely overrun 1st, but is in jeopardy if she turns toward 2nd. Where is that next likely play? 90 to the base on the edge facing 2nd, and that is the proper positioning for the next likely play. Only after BR (now R) stops and this play ends should U1 take the position for the next play.

With R1 on 2nd, and U3 in B, U1 should still hold until all play has ended; standard rotaion has PU covering 3rd, U3 holding at 2nd, U1 holding at 1st with possible rotation to cover home.

With R1 on 3rd, U1 DOES have BR to 2nd, and must be prepared for that play. Then, and only then, is U1 to consider moving further off the line to prepare for that possible (1st and 3rd) play.

In the two umpire system, BU always has BR to 2nd; and should react accordingly,same as R1 on 3rd in 3 umpire system. Staying fully on the line in the two umpires system doesn't follow the NCAA guideline to prepare for the next possible play until each play has ended. It can only stem from those confusing 3 umpire mechanics with 2 umpire mechanics.

[MD Longhorn]

That makes sense ... knowing the guy who does that in our league, he probably either saw it on TV during an NCAA game and decided, "well, that's what they do in college, so that's what I should do", or someone else was describing the mechanic in NCAA and he decided to "big-time" it and adopt the mechanic.

Wouldn't be the first time...

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

It is an NCAA mechanic based on the three umpires system (the NCAA manual standard). When B walks with no runners on, U1 doesn't have 2nd base responsibility, U3 does (same as base hit when B becomes a BR). And BR can legally and safely overrun 1st, but is in jeopardy if she turns toward 2nd. Where is that next likely play? 90 to the base on the edge facing 2nd, and that is the proper positioning for the next likely play. Only after BR (now R) stops and this play ends should U1 take the position for the next play.

With R1 on 2nd, and U3 in B, U1 should still hold until all play has ended; standard rotaion has PU covering 3rd, U3 holding at 2nd, U1 holding at 1st with possible rotation to cover home.

With R1 on 3rd, U1 DOES have BR to 2nd, and must be prepared for that play. Then, and only then, is U1 to consider moving further off the line to prepare for that possible (1st and 3rd) play.

In the two umpire system, BU always has BR to 2nd; and should react accordingly,same as R1 on 3rd in 3 umpire system. Staying fully on the line in the two umpires system doesn't follow the NCAA guideline to prepare for the next possible play until each play has ended. It can only stem from those confusing 3 umpire mechanics with 2 umpire mechanics.

So, the only time U1 should stay at the line for a BB/HBP etc. is in 3 umpire mechanics.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

So, the only time U1 should stay at the line for a BB/HBP etc. is in 3 umpire mechanics.

The ball is dead on the HBP - no need to stay on the line in 2 umpire mechanics.