Mechanics review

[CecilOne]

Just some little things, base on ASA 2 umps; but add NFHS & NCAA if you like.

A) agree or disagree
BU in B slot, pop up to SS pretty deep, this is a time to ignore inside/outside to avoid throwing lane

B) agree or disagree
Assuming PU is covering 3rd even if first play if from the outfield; it is still from the outfield if a relay by SS

C) R1 going home, R2 to 3rd, other runner(s):
How do you as BU judge whether PU is needed at home or should cover 3rd?
Please say if Q too cryptic/simplistic (politely of course).

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

A) agree or disagree
BU in B slot, pop up to SS pretty deep, this is a time to ignore inside/outside to avoid throwing lane

Huh? No. Don't ignore it. Stay outside.

B) agree or disagree
Assuming PU is covering 3rd even if first play if from the outfield; it is still from the outfield if a relay by SS

Of course.

C) R1 going home, R2 to 3rd, other runner(s):
How do you as BU judge whether PU is needed at home or should cover 3rd?
Please say if Q too cryptic/simplistic (politely of course).

No need for me, as BU, to need to judge. Someone is going home... PU stays home. Period. I have everything else.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

No need for me, as BU, to need to judge. Someone is going home... PU stays home. Period. I have everything else.

The need I meant is judging when the PU is no longer needed at HP, so both don't call the play at 3rd. Is it just dependent on the PU communicating or do you have a criteria for observation by the BU?
Or, are you saying that anytime there is a runner going home on a play, the PU "never" leaves for 3rd, even after the runner scores? Ignore TWP and where the throw goes for now.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

The need I meant is judging when the PU is no longer needed at HP, so both don't call the play at 3rd. Is it just dependent on the PU communicating or do you have a criteria for observation by the BU?
Or, are you saying that anytime there is a runner going home on a play, the PU "never" leaves for 3rd, even after the runner scores? Ignore TWP and where the throw goes for now.

Well, there's always an exception to "never", right?

R3 only; Batter hits an apparent triple. PU can cover 3rd. However, as BU, I'm expecting to cover all 3 bases unless I hear my partner say he's got 3rd. In the sitch you actually asked, though... PU has home for R1, and then has to stay home for R2 as well. Besides, I'm in C - so I'm already closer to 3rd anyway. Barring a rundown, I cannot envision a play with multiple runners other than the one I just mentioned where PU would leave home.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Just some little things, base on ASA 2 umps; but add NFHS & NCAA if you like.

A) agree or disagree
BU in B slot, pop up to SS pretty deep, this is a time to ignore inside/outside to avoid throwing lane

In ASA and Fed mechanics, you do move inside. You have to be aware not to be in the throwing lane, therefore a bit deeper in the infield than usual depending. For NCAA, you can read the play from either an inside or outside position.

And one more time to pick the nit: no softball organization labels starting positions by letters. If you say "two umpire system, runner on first" we know where you start. BTW, most umpire do not start in a good position with a runner on first, they are too far back, but that's a different thread.

B) agree or disagree
Assuming PU is covering 3rd even if first play if from the outfield; it is still from the outfield if a relay by SS

"First play from the outfield" is a meaningless phrase in softball. We have "first play in the infield" for runners at third.

PU has responsibilities at third with the exceptions of a) first play in the infield, b) steal of third, c) Batter/Runner and d) when a throw going home is cut off and thrown to third.

C) R1 going home, R2 to 3rd, other runner(s):
How do you as BU judge whether PU is needed at home or should cover 3rd?
Please say if Q too cryptic/simplistic (politely of course).

Well, as my last answer (see PU responsibilities at third), for ASA and Fed mechanics, you stay in the holding zone (between third and home) and read the throw. If the throw is directly to third, you move to a calling position at third. If the throw is home and/or cut, you stay at home (see above). For NCAA two umpires (looking in the three umpire section when a BU chases), it is the same as ASA/Fed with one exception: if there are two outs, PU stays home, BU has all bases.

This is one of my biggest pet peeves when working with some umpires. They fail to cover third and stay at the plate without even reading the play. I hear "well, a throw could come home" or (my personal fav) "I have to watch the runner touch the plate."

[DaveASA/FED]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Just some little things, base on ASA 2 umps; but add NFHS & NCAA if you like.

A) agree or disagree
BU in B slot, pop up to SS pretty deep, this is a time to ignore inside/outside to avoid throwing lane

B) agree or disagree
Assuming PU is covering 3rd even if first play if from the outfield; it is still from the outfield if a relay by SS

C) R1 going home, R2 to 3rd, other runner(s):
How do you as BU judge whether PU is needed at home or should cover 3rd?
Please say if Q too cryptic/simplistic (politely of course).

A) there are some hits that, as the national staff describes them, are tweeners, it's inbetween the infield and the outfield. This is what this scenario sounds like to me so you read the play and react to it. Most likely as you are describing it (or as I am seeing it anyway) this play would be best to stay outside.

B) Agreed, you have to believe your partner will cover their responsibilities and you should cover yours. Now glancing to make sure never hurt but yes you should believe they are going to do their job.

C) By the book PU should be there unless there is a throw that takes them home. BU by the book covers a play on a lead runner at 3B if there is a throw that is returning from home, or cut off while on it's way to home and then thrown to 3B to make a play. In a follow up thread you asked to not worry about if there was a throw, well you can't disreguard this fact since it changes the coverage. Ex. If bases are loaded and there is a base hit to the outfield the PU should move into the holding zone and read the play being ready to move into position at 3B or home depending on what happens. IF there is going to be a play at the plate then PU needs to move toward the plate and take that play, any subsquent play on a throw being returned to 3B from the plate area will be the BU's call on R2. Now if R1 is going to score with no play the PU should stay in the holding zone and see the touch of home over their shoulder while preparing for a play at 3B on another lead runner. So the quick answer to your question is, if there is a play at the plate (which could just be a throw to the plate) on a lead runner, then as a BU you know you have to cover a return throw to 3B on another runner. If there isn't a play/throw toward home then by the book PU should have that play at 3B. Still always a good idea to look, could be possible PU got fooled and thought there was a play developing at plate and you may be in a better position to take the call but as always this is a deviation so COMMUNICATE and make sure it's clear you are taking that call at 3B.

[HugoTafurst]

+1. (especially as it relates to "c"