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-   -   Dirt and the ball (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/90289-dirt-ball.html)

HugoTafurst Thu Mar 29, 2012 05:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 834788)

(Snip)
I think the issue in the OP isn't so much the dirt, but how the pitcher was attempting to scuff up the ball.
That is the way I read the original post.
Quote:
Pitcher takes ball and rubs the ball on the dirt. What do you do, if anything?

I would check the ball, tell the pitcher not to do that again, let her know that if she has a problem with the ball to let me know and I'll take care of it.

EsqUmp Thu Mar 29, 2012 06:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 834788)
I actually address this with HS coaches when I see it during their scrimmages/play days.

The OP clearly indicates the ball being rubbed in the dirt. I've even seen pitchers drop the ball and stand on the ball and move their feet to grind the ball into the ground.

As the umpire in a game I would stop them immediately and instruct them to not do it again.

I will inspect the ball and either keep it or replace it. I will then instruct the coach that if their player believe the ball to be too slippery, I will be more than happy to rub it down, or maybe have them rub it down in their hands. If they want to use dirt, I don't have a problem with that as long as all they are doing is rubbing it down, not marking or scraping it.

I make it clear to the coaches that any player found to be doing so after our little talk will need to find a seat on the bench.

I think the issue in the OP isn't so much the dirt, but how the pitcher was attempting to scuff up the ball.
Hmm, to remove it would mean to say that the action was illegal. Where does it say to issue a warning and take the ball from the pitcher? Or are you just making that up because you think it's the right thing to do even if there is no rules support?

NSABill Thu Mar 29, 2012 07:11pm
You impress me with your Carnegie skills.
I am sure you are a joy to work with, young man.

HugoTafurst Thu Mar 29, 2012 07:17pm
BINGO .....I was holding off thinking that maybe I was misreading your posts....


But now, I am leaning towards thing that you truely are on here just to raise stink and pick fights.

EsqUmp Thu Mar 29, 2012 08:12pm
People regularly ask me to quote specific areas of a rule book and bash anything that isn't spelled out in black and white. They all want "rule book support." So now I'm asking for it. It's hypocritical to just complain that I am asking for it.

pob14 Thu Mar 29, 2012 08:18pm
Umpire12, despite his use of the word "Bingo," I'm pretty sure Hugo's post was aimed at someone else . . . .

IRISHMAFIA Thu Mar 29, 2012 08:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 834827)
Hmm, to remove it would mean to say that the action was illegal.
Show me where it says it is illegal.

Quote:
Where does it say to issue a warning and take the ball from the pitcher?
Show me the rule that says I cannot.

Quote:
Or are you just making that up because you think it's the right thing to do even if there is no rules support?
Again, citations. Show me where it says anything I did could not be done.

EsqUmp Thu Mar 29, 2012 08:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 834848)
Show me where it says it is illegal.



Show me the rule that says I cannot.



Again, citations. Show me where it says anything I did could not be done.
By taking the ball away, you're saying that the pitcher can't do it. If she can do it, then you wouldn't be taking the ball away. Where does it say you can issue warnings for actions you deem to be violations?

Interesting how to change things to "show me where it says I can't" now that the tables are turned. :rolleyes:

IRISHMAFIA Thu Mar 29, 2012 08:57pm
Just what I thought, no rules, just personal opinion. Yet you wanted me to provide citations.

BTW

Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 834848)
Show me where it says it is illegal.
F.Y.I. 1.3.6 renders the ball illegal. However, if a pitch hasn't been thrown with the ball, I get rid of the ball.

Quote:

Show me the rule that says I cannot.

Again, citations. Show me where it says anything I did could not be done.


10.2.3.f gives the umpire that authority to deal with it and 3.6.1 helps with that

EsqUmp Fri Mar 30, 2012 06:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 834852)

F.Y.I. 1.3.6 renders the ball illegal. However, if a pitch hasn't been thrown with the ball, I get rid of the ball.

10.2.3.f gives the umpire that authority to deal with it and 3.6.1 helps with that
So you choose to ignore the rule. How would you handle it if the pitcher clearly rubbed the ball up with dirt, you go out to change the ball, and the offensive coach requests that an illegal pitch be called? By rule, this is an illegal pitch. Would you call it? How would you handle a protest? Are there any other illegal pitches you would choose not to call?

EsqUmp Fri Mar 30, 2012 06:27am
ASA Casebook Play 6.6-3 reads, F5 rubs dirt on the ball and gives it to F1
to pitch. Ruling: Illegal Pitch. If a player continues to place an illegal
substance on the ball, the player should be ejected from the game. 6-6A Effect.

Oddly enough, 2012 ASA Umpire Exam Alternate Fast Pitch question 15 reads "A pitcher picks up dirt with the pitching hand and does not wipe the dirt off
before pitching. This is an illegal pitch." The Answer key reads, FALSE. 6-6A
FP & MP.

NCASAUmp Fri Mar 30, 2012 06:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 834887)
ASA Casebook Play 6.6-3 reads, F5 rubs dirt on the ball and gives it to F1
to pitch. Ruling: Illegal Pitch. If a player continues to place an illegal
substance on the ball, the player should be ejected from the game. 6-6A Effect.

Oddly enough, 2012 ASA Umpire Exam Alternate Fast Pitch question 15 reads "A pitcher picks up dirt with the pitching hand and does not wipe the dirt off
before pitching. This is an illegal pitch." The Answer key reads, FALSE. 6-6A
FP & MP.
Two different scenarios. In the first, the dirt is being "rubbed" into the ball. In the second, the dirt was only in the hand, and nothing is mentioned about the dirt being rubbed into the ball.

I see no inconsistencies there.

IRISHMAFIA Fri Mar 30, 2012 07:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 834887)
ASA Casebook Play 6.6-3 reads, F5 rubs dirt on the ball and gives it to F1
to pitch. Ruling: Illegal Pitch. If a player continues to place an illegal
substance on the ball, the player should be ejected from the game. 6-6A Effect.

Oddly enough, 2012 ASA Umpire Exam Alternate Fast Pitch question 15 reads "A pitcher picks up dirt with the pitching hand and does not wipe the dirt off
before pitching. This is an illegal pitch." The Answer key reads, FALSE. 6-6A
FP & MP.
That's nice, but the discussion is HS ball.

IRISHMAFIA Fri Mar 30, 2012 07:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 834886)
So you choose to ignore the rule. How would you handle it if the pitcher clearly rubbed the ball up with dirt, you go out to change the ball, and the offensive coach requests that an illegal pitch be called? By rule, this is an illegal pitch. Would you call it? How would you handle a protest? Are there any other illegal pitches you would choose not to call?
Hey, bubba, this isn't chancery. You are making a lot of claims, but no rule to support it. Hmmm....where have I heard that before? :rolleyes:

EsqUmp Fri Mar 30, 2012 07:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 834894)
Hey, bubba, this isn't chancery. You are making a lot of claims, but no rule to support it. Hmmm....where have I heard that before? :rolleyes:
If there is no rule support, why are you taking the ball from the pitcher?

If she didn't do something wrong, then leave the ball the hell alone.


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