Post game Convo - Appeal or not?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Do you want your partner coming to you when he thinks you kicked a call?

It was your partner's call. Right or wrong, bad judgment or not, it isn't your call. You don't know what your partner saw or what you DIDN'T see. Don't say anything until your partner asks for your input. Sometimes we have to live with our calls.

However, if your partner asks for help, have an opinion, and don't be afraid to share it.

Call in your area, observe all areas.

There's a big difference from a missed call and a mistaken ruling. I assumed during the game that he had reason to believe this was an appeal, so I said nothing - didn't even think about it really. You say that I didn't know what my partner saw or what I didn't see... and that's EXACTLY right, which is why I said nothing. Heck, for all I know from 80 feet away, the runner never touched home and he was simply calling the out for that.

It wasn't until post game that it came up that he didn't call the out because he thought it was an appeal, but rather because they had tagged a runner who "had to return", but when I asked if he thought the defense knew, at that moment, that she had to return, he said no.

That makes this a rules mistake - something we SHOULD correct - and not just a judgement error. But of course, I didn't know it was a rules mistake at the time.

Which is why I thought this worth discussing!

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

There's a big difference from a missed call and a mistaken ruling. I assumed during the game that he had reason to believe this was an appeal, so I said nothing - didn't even think about it really. You say that I didn't know what my partner saw or what I didn't see... and that's EXACTLY right, which is why I said nothing. Heck, for all I know from 80 feet away, the runner never touched home and he was simply calling the out for that.

It wasn't until post game that it came up that he didn't call the out because he thought it was an appeal, but rather because they had tagged a runner who "had to return", but when I asked if he thought the defense knew, at that moment, that she had to return, he said no.

That makes this a rules mistake - something we SHOULD correct - and not just a judgement error. But of course, I didn't know it was a rules mistake at the time.

Which is why I thought this worth discussing!

Is it the BU's responsibility to fix this problem or is it the offended coach's responsiblity to address it with the PU?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Is it the BU's responsibility to fix this problem or is it the offended coach's responsiblity to address it with the PU?

That's a good question. Do we correct an error (rules, not judgement!) our partner makes in other cases? If your partner calls an infield fly with either runners on the wrong bases or the wrong number of outs, and it's not caught, do you fix it? If your partner rules the wrong offensive player out after a batter's inferference call, do you fix it? If your partner rules an out on a player who could not bat in her proper spot because she was on base after a BOO is not caught - do you fix it? If your partner awards 2nd base on a thrown ball that goes out of play because the runner was retreating toward 1st when it was thrown, do you fix it.

I say yes to all of these.

The issue, though, was that I didn't really know it was a rules mistake until far far too late.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

That's a good question. Do we correct an error (rules, not judgement!) our partner makes in other cases? If your partner calls an infield fly with either runners on the wrong bases or the wrong number of outs, and it's not caught, do you fix it? If your partner rules the wrong offensive player out after a batter's inferference call, do you fix it? If your partner rules an out on a player who could not bat in her proper spot because she was on base after a BOO is not caught - do you fix it? If your partner awards 2nd base on a thrown ball that goes out of play because the runner was retreating toward 1st when it was thrown, do you fix it.

I say yes to all of these.

The issue, though, was that I didn't really know it was a rules mistake until far far too late.

That is exactly my point. You didn't know it was a rule interp problem - you thought it was bad judgment. I don't think you want to approach your partner with the 'bad judgment' comment. Nor do I think you want to stop the game to ask "What did you have there?". That should be the OC's job. Agreed, the other instances you mention are visible, public rule errors and should be corrected. But in your scenario, you don't have that at the time of the play.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

That is exactly my point. You didn't know it was a rule interp problem - you thought it was bad judgment. I don't think you want to approach your partner with the 'bad judgment' comment. Nor do I think you want to stop the game to ask "What did you have there?". That should be the OC's job. Agreed, the other instances you mention are visible, public rule errors and should be corrected. But in your scenario, you don't have that at the time of the play.

Makes sense... (for the record, I never thought it was bad judgement - I just assumed there was something I didn't see.)

[EsqUmp]

If you KNOW that your partner misapplied a rule, you have a duty to confer with your partner and get it right.

The original post is more difficult because it may have involved both/either judgment and/or misapplication of a rule.

Umpires can't let a game go on with misapplication of rules. We are there to prevent that.

[x-tremeump]

"As BU, do you do anything to "fix" this, or even discuss with your partner on the field"?



I was not there, Just for fun BU & PU get together, How do you fix this ?