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Thu Jun 05, 2003, 02:00pm
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Coaches saying "call it both ways" means only one thing... "call it MY way"
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omq -- "May I always be the kind of person my dog thinks I am." 
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Thu Jun 05, 2003, 02:12pm
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He then turned toward me, pointed and started, "And you...". It was unbelieveable how loud the moan from his own team was. This team (LA Rockers playing Vision Scene) had two player/umpires, there were no substitutes available and they knew I would dump him. He was gone, game was over and I didn't get one complaint. Even the scorekeeper (ejected player's wife) was ragging on him for being so stupid. I had to ask one of them what the rest of his statement was because I didn't care at the time.
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Thu Jun 05, 2003, 02:25pm
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I guess I'm way too soft. Must be because I come from the old school, where umps let players and coaches say a lot as long as they didn't hurl personal insults. I've seen umps toss even fans for the old "call 'em both ways" remark, but to me, you're supposed to ignore the fans, except for obscenity.
All the FP leagues around here are real sticklers for sportsmanship and quickly get rid of coaches who don't set good examples. I guess we're very lucky in that regard. "Call 'em both ways" from coaches or players doesn't bother me. Maybe it should. Depends on how they say it. For some reason, coaches very seldom give me a direct argument. Their main tactic is to talk to somebody else so that I can hear: "Looks like she's gotta throw it right down Broadway." "I don't know where that one was." "That pitch was right over. He's really squeezing us." Only once would I have tossed a coach in FP, but my partner beat me to it. I've tossed only 2 players in SP. Both guys gave me no choice.
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide!
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Thu Jun 05, 2003, 02:36pm
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I've heard the call 'em both ways several times. What got me on this one was that it was after a warning that I'd heard enough, and that he was 45 feet away and said it loud enough for everyone to hear, and the fact that the other pitcher hadn't even thrown a pitch yet...
[Edited by AlabamaBlue on Jun 5th, 2003 at 02:40 PM]
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Thu Jun 05, 2003, 03:24pm
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You were absolutely justified in running the coach in that situation.Once a coach points and makes a demand like that, he/she is attacking the umpires integrity.I dont even issue a warning at that point,"just your done coach,sight and sound in 60 seconds or game is over." Dont ever let a coach attempt to show you up.I always treat them with respect and expect the same if they want to continue to coach their game. Jeff
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Thu Jun 05, 2003, 03:35pm
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This year, we were given yellow (warning) and red (ejection) cards like they use in soccer. We're supposed to show them to the offender, thereby reducing/eliminating the verbal warnings/rebuttals that get the heart rates going and the tensions rising so quickly. I've asked a few colleagues if they've used their's yet but they've stayed with verbal warnings so far. I've only given the one warning so far and it was verbal, mostly because I'm worried that most of the coaches probably don't even know we carry them. I'll wait until I see someone else use them. Imaging trying to discipline someone by showing them a yellow card and having them look back at you wondering what the heck you are doing. Anyone else using the yellow/red card system?
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bobbrix
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Thu Jun 05, 2003, 04:23pm
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Two more of my favorites: "You HAVE to give me a warning" and "I didn't curse you, so you can't throw me out!" I feel like a 2nd grade teacher dealing with bunch of kids who just learned to put together two coherent sentences. The excuses and threats are the same things I heard from classmates in grade school. "He started it", "He said it to me first", "She's looking at me", "I'm going to call (enter name here)", etc. It's just unbelievable. Usually, I just laugh at them and that just upsets them more. As far as the fans are concerned, they are not there. I have enough to do inside the fences without babysitting members of the general public. I will address a fan's presence only if it is directly affecting the game. Even then, I just tell the coaches the game is suspended until they get control of that fan. I don't really eject that many players or coaches. I have one this year, one last year and three the year before that and I don't have second thoughts about any one of them.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Thu Jun 05, 2003, 09:45pm
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This is my first year of umpiring. I'm waiting for that very first ejection. I could've had one two weeks ago for a coach that kept questioning pitches and why they weren't called "deep" or flat or high--just seemed to annoyingly question some pitches. (Thanks to another post for providing a clear view on the misconception of deep pitches. It helped.)
As for the "You BETTER call them both ways", my opinion is that if it embarrasses you and it questions your integrity, honesty, and impartiality, then that is grounds for ejection. I guess since I am a rookie, I have a thick skin. I can put up with a lot. It bothers me, though, that some people and coaches seem to not even bother to pick up a rule book of the game and think and read about what they are talking about before they open up their mouth. Anyone remember what it was like to throw someone out for the first time? (Please don't think I'm implying anything about age.) I would like to know what it's like just in case. 
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"If you want something that is fair in life, hit a ball between first and third base." John Palko Pittsburgh, PA
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Thu Jun 05, 2003, 09:56pm
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Got my first notch on the belt last night.
40+ H.S. games, most varsity, even state tournament - never a major hassle. Sure there have been some words and I had to speak sharply to one coach and one player. But really, a wonderful season. So now I am doing men's FP. Bingo - one gone in the second game. Called 3rd strike, ball walked the inside edge of the plate. Ball deflected off F2's glove and bounced towards dugout. Young man at the plate is yelling about my call. I step away so I can see catcher, who finally grabs ball, see batter still at the plate, and fires strike to 1B. "Batter is out!" Emphatic hammer. Now he becomes unglued. "How can you call that a strike? The catcher couldn't even catch it." "Not my problem, he got it in time to get you out." "That's a dumb a-- call." Now I am begining to get a bit upset. "You are out, go to the bench, I'm ready to play ball." Now he changes the sentence structure. "You are a dumb a--!" "And you, sir, are gone!" Welcome to the land of AA's. WMB
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Thu Jun 05, 2003, 10:16pm
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__________________
"If you want something that is fair in life, hit a ball between first and third base." John Palko Pittsburgh, PA
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Fri Jun 06, 2003, 12:13am
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Hey BigUmpJohn,
I remember my first ejection. I made it half way through my rookie year. I had one coach (10-u rec ball) who would ride me every game I had him. I was trying really hard to not eject anyone my first year (I didn't want to be known as having a quick fuse). I spoke to my UIC about this coach and told him what was going on. He said if it's bad enough, warn him; if he continues, toss him. The following week I had him again. I put up with the strike zone comments for an inning. I told the coach that I wasn't going to put up with it. The next inning, he started again so I tossed him. I can tell you the adrenaline was pumping as I was waiting for the confrontation. It never came. He left the field without saying a word. Funny part is, after the game he found me and said: "Took you long enough. I was wondering when you would get your fill." We both laughed and I felt like that day I had become a blue! I can say it felt good to get it out of the way. Good luck the rest of the season.
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heyblue
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Fri Jun 06, 2003, 07:16am
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My first one was a no-brainer. 12U, I called a runner out on appeal for missing home, and the coach came out to argue, started cursing.
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Fri Jun 06, 2003, 07:35am
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I don't know if it was my first ejection, but in my first year a player was ejected for an obscene gesture after being tagged out at 3rd. Several teammates yelled things like "What the %^&*", "You can't %(^%ing do that" and "#^$# you", so I tossed the whole team.
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Fri Jun 06, 2003, 08:41am
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If this coach's team is on the short end of a run-away game and he does not cuss, I am leaving him to suffer. Lot of coaches just want out of a bad situtation. Toss him, and he feels he has accomplished something. Close game and cussing,  I got one lesscoach. glen AFA, ASA, LL, NFHS, NSA, PONY, USSSA, &  USFA.
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glen _______________________________ "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." --Mark Twain.
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