What do you have?

[MD Longhorn]

What do you have and how do you handle it? ASA rules apply.

Hmmm... Love those that answer a questions completely wrong, defend their inane position until their are beaten to submission, then retreat to the "they don't do it that way in the ABCDE league". Don't come on here, answer an ASA question with blatant stupidity and then claim the reason for your answer is that other groups don't agree with ASA.

(And incidentally, all but NCAA and professional that I've come across subscribe to the "prevent a disqualification" mentality at the very least... and in many cases, simply "prevent the foul/rule breakage/whatever if you can" mentality.)

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

(And incidentally, all but NCAA and professional that I've come across subscribe to the "prevent a disqualification" mentality at the very least... and in many cases, simply "prevent the foul/rule breakage/whatever if you can" mentality.)

You can subtract NCAA from that list, too. The SUP, as well as the CCA manual, has stated the same philosophy as others, do not knowingly allow an illegal change. That isn't coaching, it is preventative officiating. By the vast majority opinion.

Sounds to me like NSA stands alone, if that is even their actual philosphy.

[NSABill]

Did not realize this was ASA specific.
I must admit I was not giving an ASA sanctioned answer.
As for ASA, I am no expert.

Respectfully,

Bill

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by umpire12

i agree...i made a mistake by not realizing the question was ASA specific...however, calling someone blatantly stupid is uncalled for. i may not always be right but i would not lower myself to your level by casting aspersions. that was downright rude

Had I called you that, I'd apologize. I did not.

Even smart people say things that are blatantly stupid sometimes - doesn't make them blatantly stupid any more than their being smart makes their stupid comment something other than stupid.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Even smart people say things that are blatantly stupid sometimes - doesn't make them blatantly stupid any more than their being smart makes their stupid comment something other than stupid.

I used to do tech support at a major university. I can totally vouch for this.

[rwest]

Who would have thought that a simple post on an illegal re-entry would turn into a thread with 62 replies?

OK, so the general consensus is don't allow it. Mike even furnished some information from ASA to not knowingly allow a illegal substitution. Good enough for me. Now, do you actually prevent the batter from batting? What if the coach, after he has been told this is illegal, agrees not to officially make the substitution, but still tells his player to go bat. Are you going to remain quiet at this time and allow the girl to bat, knowing that she can't legally? You didn't allow the substitution. Your line up card reflects the previous line up. You made no announcement to the score keeper or to the other team. I think at this point we have done all we can and now it is on the other coach to catch the illegal re-entry.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by rwest

Who would have thought that a simple post on an illegal re-entry would turn into a thread with 62 replies?

OK, so the general consensus is don't allow it. Mike even furnished some information from ASA to not knowingly allow a illegal substitution. Good enough for me. Now, do you actually prevent the batter from batting? What if the coach, after he has been told this is illegal, agrees not to officially make the substitution, but still tells his player to go bat. Are you going to remain quiet at this time and allow the girl to bat, knowing that she can't legally? You didn't allow the substitution. Your line up card reflects the previous line up. You made no announcement to the score keeper or to the other team. I think at this point we have done all we can and now it is on the other coach to catch the illegal re-entry.

Hey, look I'm quoting myself! Sorry, I digress!

Alright, so lets say you don't allow the illegal re-entry in the 4th inning. Suppose the coach attempts this again in the 6th, but this times does not inform you of the substitution. So now we have an unreported substitute. If the opposing coach comes out to appeal, what do you do? Does the coach have to use the correct verbiage? What if the coach says I want to appeal an unreported sub? Do we rule on that alone and not rule on the illegal re-entry until the coach appeals that infraction? Or do we go straight to the more egregious infraction of an illegal re-entry?

This appears to me to be similar to a coach appealing a player missing a base. The coach can't simple say, "Blue, the runner missed a base". They have to say what base they missed. They can't guess. The ASA manual specifically says not to allow guessing games.

[Andy]

There is another solution to this issue....

Coach: I want to re-enter Baker
Ump: Sorry, coach, you can't do that. Baker has already used his re-entry.
Coach: I want to do it anyway.
Ump: Coach, I am not going to allow you to do that.
Coach: Re-enter Baker...Baker, get up to bat!

Ump: Coach, you're ejected. (to new head coach): did you have any legal lineup changes for me?

(Repeat as necessary)

It is considered unsportsmanlike conduct to disregard an umpires directives.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Andy

There is another solution to this issue....

Coach: I want to re-enter Baker
Ump: Sorry, coach, you can't do that. Baker has already used his re-entry.
Coach: I want to do it anyway.
Ump: Coach, I am not going to allow you to do that.
Coach: Re-enter Baker...Baker, get up to bat!

Ump: Coach, you're ejected. (to new head coach): did you have any legal lineup changes for me?

(Repeat as necessary)

It is considered unsportsmanlike conduct to disregard an umpires directives.

But this doesn't address my last post. They are not substituting. They are just putting her in without notifying you. Now you have an unreported sub.
In ASA the umpire does not have the authority to rule on this until an appeal is made by the defense.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by Andy

There is another solution to this issue....

Coach: I want to re-enter Baker
Ump: Sorry, coach, you can't do that. Baker has already used his re-entry.
Coach: I want to do it anyway.
Ump: Coach, I am not going to allow you to do that.
Coach: Re-enter Baker...Baker, get up to bat!

Ump: Coach, you're ejected. (to new head coach): did you have any legal lineup changes for me?

(Repeat as necessary)

It is considered unsportsmanlike conduct to disregard an umpires directives.

^^^^As stated by others.....this is how I would also handle the situation. Along with the (Repeat as necessary) step.

Joel