Make this call - and support it!

[Andy]

ASA or NFHS FP. Bases loaded, 0 outs or 1 out.

Ball hit back to pitcher, throws to home for the force on R1. F2 throws to first but hits BR with the ball. BR is out of the running lane. Interference is called.

How many outs do you have on this play and where do you place the remaining runners?

(This actually happened this weekend in a 12u ASA national qualifier tournament)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Andy
ASA or NFHS FP. Bases loaded, 0 outs or 1 out.

Ball hit back to pitcher, throws to home for the force on R1. F2 throws to first but hits BR with the ball. BR is out of the running lane. Interference is called.

How many outs do you have on this play and where do you place the remaining runners?

(This actually happened this weekend in a 12u ASA national qualifier tournament)

Speaking ASA and assuming the call on the BR was legitimate, you just rang up two outs. Unless the inning was over, R2 & R3 are placed on the base last touched at the time of the interference.

ASA Rule 1 Force out
Rule 8.7.C
Rule 8.2.E & Effect

That was easy, but please don't tell me that when the umpire ruled on the 3' lane violation, they also ruled it alleviated the force and did not rule R1 out at the plate.

[greymule]

I thought maybe this was a trick question of some kind, but I can't think of any way the ruling could be anything other than what Mike stated.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by greymule
I thought maybe this was a trick question of some kind, but I can't think of any way the ruling could be anything other than what Mike stated.

Right and ditto for NFHS, probably the others. Maybe Andy needs to explain more. But as someone said the other day, you never know what the coaches will claim.

The offense coach will claim you can't call the interference because it wasn't the first play or because the ball wasn't batted to F2. The defense coach will say it prevented F3 from throwing to 2nd and want a triple play.

[Skahtboi]

Two outs. Again, there are rules in ASA, USSSA, NFHS and Dixie that cover this.

Scott

[WillyS]

I had this very thing happen last week in a High School Varsity game(NFHS).
Bottom of the 7th, bases loaded, one out, score tied 2 - 2.
I'm PU, Batter hits two hopper to the pitcher, throw goes home to F2 for force out, Catcher steps up and throws to first. BR comes out of the running lane about two steps before the bag. Just as BR's lead leg is in the air to touch 1B, throw hits her in the top of the helmet and caroms into RF.
1b was reaching for the ball and appeared she may have contacted it too. I did not rule interference in this case, since I felt the BR needs to come out of the running lane at some point to touch the bag. (Double base not being used). Partner felt the same.

Losing coach came over while we were changing in the parking lot and asked if interference could/should have been ruled.

Did I make the right call?

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by WillyS
I had this very thing happen last week in a High School Varsity game(NFHS).
Bottom of the 7th, bases loaded, one out, score tied 2 - 2.
I'm PU, Batter hits two hopper to the pitcher, throw goes home to F2 for force out, Catcher steps up and throws to first. BR comes out of the running lane about two steps before the bag. Just as BR's lead leg is in the air to touch 1B, throw hits her in the top of the helmet and caroms into RF.
1b was reaching for the ball and appeared she may have contacted it too. I did not rule interference in this case, since I felt the BR needs to come out of the running lane at some point to touch the bag. (Double base not being used). Partner felt the same.

Losing coach came over while we were changing in the parking lot and asked if interference could/should have been ruled.

Did I make the right call?

Judgement call. So yes, from what you described, I would say that you probably did make the correct call, though of course, it is a HTBT kind of play. You are right in saying that at some point the B/R needs to leave the lane in order to touch the base.

Scott

[Andy]

Mike and everyone else got it right.

We had an overzealous umpire that decided on the field that the interference call killed the entire play and wanted to nullify the force out at the plate and return all runners to their bases. This would have resulted in only one out and bases still loaded.

Fortunatley, his partner got to him and they ruled correctly, two outs, runners on second and third.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Skahtboi

Judgement call. So yes, from what you described, I would say that you probably did make the correct call, though of course, it is a HTBT kind of play. You are right in saying that at some point the B/R needs to leave the lane in order to touch the base.

Scott

Please note, I'm not debating the call here. I have no problem with the call.

What I want to talk about is why people think the BR needs to come out of the lane at some point to touch the base.

In a perfect diamond layout, approximately 3" of the base is included in the running lane allowing that the chalked lines would be considered part of the lane.

There is no requirement for the runner to hit the center of the base. For that matter, the farther inside the line the runner touches the base, the more likely there is with contact with the player covering 1B. The prime part of the base for the BR to contact is the outside, front corner.

Now, I know you are all going to tell me that we rarely see the perfect diamond layout. Hell, around here we rarely see ANY lines. But think about. Is there really a necessity for the BR to have any part of their body other than maybe the left foot at any given time?

[WestMichBlue]

"There is no requirement for the runner to hit the center of the base."

Fundamentals of Base Running 101. Teach the player to hit the center of the base with either foot when running through the base. Reduces the chance of ankle injury if the runner strikes the edge of the base.

WMB

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
"There is no requirement for the runner to hit the center of the base."

Fundamentals of Base Running 101. Teach the player to hit the center of the base with either foot when running through the base. Reduces the chance of ankle injury if the runner strikes the edge of the base.

WMB

Rubbish. To me, that's lazy coaching. With some of the bases out there now, it is more dangerous to hit the bag anywhere near the center. Even more so with many of the players not being properly coached on the mechanics of a defender taking a throw at first base. You want to talk about ankle and knee injuries, that's where they occur.

Players should be taught to hit the outside edge of the bag. Even way back in the '60s players when I was just a pup we were taught to always keep part of the foot in the dirt if possible. This allows for better traction and body control when done properly.

WMB, I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree with the philosophy. Never had, probably never will. It's no different than sliding (or anything else done on the ball field), learn to do it right, and it's one helluva tool.

[SamNVa]

I agree with Mike here.
Warning RANT ahead.


I see too many F3's playing with their foot stuck smack in the middle of the base and too many runners trying to plunk their foot down in exactly the same spot. That's why there's all the clamor for two first bases. If coaches would teach their F3's to use the inside edge of the base and their BR to step on the outside half of the base then a single base would be perfectly adequate (is that an oxymoron??) for 90% of the plays at 1st.

If people are so worried about collisions at 1st then they should just move the orange base about 4 feet to the right or teach their players the proper way to field and run.


SamC

[greymule]

So many of our difficulties as umpires arise from the fact that players don't know how to play the game. When players lack the fundamentals, they produce all kinds of plays that don't fit neatly into the rules we have studied.

Obstruction and interference are often difficult calls. But whereas we might have just a handful of those calls over a decade, we now see them regularly. I saw more in one JV high school softball game than I did in my entire baseball career.

We see a ground ball to F6 with a runner on 2B. And then we see both the runner and the fielder do something illogical and unexpected. So at the resulting tangle we wonder, "What in the world did I just witness?"

We see runners tripping over the front of the plate and falling over catchers who are standing on the plate with the ball at the backstop. (Hey, Blue, she's got to slide!!)

The running lane rule was written by people who expected F3 to be fielding the position in some kind of logical manner, and the runner to be sprinting toward the outside of the bag. The book play is easy to call, but how often do we really see it?

We see F3 standing with both feet on the middle of the double base and the BR inside the line and then slowing down to stick a foot on the base and not overrun it. Oh, yes, F4 gets over there and enters the mess, too.

[Skahtboi]

Mike:

I agree in principle with much of what you said. However, the problem is all too often what you stated in your response to WMB, namely "lazy coaching." (As was also stated by Sam C in his eloquently made "rant.") If all coaches had to attend clinics on how to teach the fundamentals of the game, then our jobs would be so much easier. All too often, though, I see fielders who are coached to stay on the bag in anticipation of a possible play, when in reality all it does is place them that much closer to an obstruction call. I see fielders who are taught to block the bag from the runner, often by the same coaches who gripe the loudest when there is a train wreck at first base. Therefore, in situations like we were discussing, when I see a runner who has used the running lane right up until her "move to the bag," I am going to give her the benefit of a doubt and not ring her up on interference in the play that we were originally discussing.

Is there really a necessity for the BR to have any part of their body other than maybe the left foot at any given time?

In a perfect world, where every kid is taught good mechanics and the fundamentals of the game, no there isn't.

In a world of moms and dads who are rec league coaches or travel coaches, who can say?!

Scott

[Elaine "Lady Blue"]

I LOVE it!! All you guys give great responses. Hey Sam, I really like the 'rant' with the old geezer!! LOL