I screwed up ... how to fix it?

[Linknblue]

Situation: Runner on 1st, no outs. Batter hits ground ball to F6 who throws to F4 for DP. F4 catches ball but she pulls her foot before she has possession of ball. I rule safe, pulled foot and follow play to first where I rule out. As I turn back I see runner I called safe at second heading for dugout thinking she was out................now, for whatever reason, I tell her "Go back, your were safe". Dumb yeah, but I did it. Of course DC comes out, politely I have to say and says, I know what you did and I understand it, but.............pitcher had ball in circle while runner was off base (going back to dugout), isn't she out for not being on her base when pitcher had ball. Now is when I realize what I did was big mistake. I have no clue where ball was because in my head as soon as BR was ruled out at first I'm thinking "plays over, dead ball, next batter". (I think I went into my slowpitch mode a bit.) Needless to say, I screwed up. I had to tell coach that but I can't rule on ball in circle stuff since I didn't see it. He walks off muttering..............was there a fix to this after all that transpired? Plate guy was no help since he didn't think about ball in circle stuff either.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Linknblue

Situation: Runner on 1st, no outs. Batter hits ground ball to F6 who throws to F4 for DP. F4 catches ball but she pulls her foot before she has possession of ball. I rule safe, pulled foot and follow play to first where I rule out. As I turn back I see runner I called safe at second heading for dugout thinking she was out................now, for whatever reason, I tell her "Go back, your were safe". Dumb yeah, but I did it. Of course DC comes out, politely I have to say and says, I know what you did and I understand it, but.............pitcher had ball in circle while runner was off base (going back to dugout), isn't she out for not being on her base when pitcher had ball. Now is when I realize what I did was big mistake. I have no clue where ball was because in my head as soon as BR was ruled out at first I'm thinking "plays over, dead ball, next batter". (I think I went into my slowpitch mode a bit.) Needless to say, I screwed up. I had to tell coach that but I can't rule on ball in circle stuff since I didn't see it. He walks off muttering..............was there a fix to this after all that transpired? Plate guy was no help since he didn't think about ball in circle stuff either.

As described, the runner didn't violate the look back rule anyway. Believing she was out she left the base before the pitcher had the ball. (Or more likely never even came all the way in to second. (And I'm assuming that she was headed to the first base dugout since she ran past you.) Since she wasn't on the base when the pitcher got the ball, she's entitled to one stop after which she must immediately commit to a base. She committed to second and went straight there.

Now, if we modify your scenario so there was a look back rule violation, then yes you would have kicked it but no you can't call her out. If you and your partner had been staring at first while the R1 ran to third, the ball was thrown over there and she was tagged and then you both looked over and saw her standing on the bag with the third baseman and every coach screaming at you, you couldn't call her out because you didn't see it and this is no different. You only get to call the outs you manage to see (and the ones you don't you have to work for free to make up for. )

[MD Longhorn]

I concur. Forget your instructions to the player - it doesn't sound like she did anything wrong - even if you both DID see the ball in the circle. After listening to coach and thinking through the situation slowly, I would have asked him what part of the LBR he thought she violated.

Question - exactly where was she when you reiterated your call to her? What was the sequence of events (i.e. in what order did the following items occur: You speaking to player, out at first, ball returned to pitcher, player touches 2nd, coach comes out)

Also - the other consideration here is that you gave instructions to the player. Technically it's not a dead ball when you do so - but I think you can rationalize it that way.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Also - the other consideration here is that you gave instructions to the player. Technically it's not a dead ball when you do so - but I think you can rationalize it that way.

No, but it is a dead ball when the DC enters the field of play.

Once you realize the ball is in the circle, the LBR is in effect and unless the runner stopped or reversed field more than once in returning to 2B, the runner is okay.

[Linknblue]

Just to clear it up a bit. BR slides into 2nd. I looked at throw to 1st, called the out and turned back looking inside and she passed me by. That's when I told her....plays over for me. Next thing I see is DC talking to my partner and me thinking "What's up?". Then he comes out to me. Ball is of course in pitcher's hand in circle for I don't know how long. We have our discussion and I simply say to his comment about the LBR, I didn't see that part of play so I can't call that even though if that's what happened he's technically correct. In think'n back, I remember her simply hearing me, turning around and going back to 2nd...no play ever made. We (I) ruled she stays at 2nd and we play on. No penalty, no foul......didn't stop the muttering as he walked away albeit it was at least only so he and I could hear it.

[MD Longhorn]

The way you describe it, I find it incredibly unlikely you have a LBR violation here, even if you WERE watching the ball get to the pitcher. First, it sounds like she only reversed once, which is legal no matter when the pitcher got the ball during the described sequence (to the nitpickers, I'm making what I think is a safe assumption that she was not still standing on 2nd when the ball got to pitcher).

Besides ... if defensive coach was out talking to your partner immediately after the play at first, he killed the play before LBR had a chance to become involved anyway. Sounds (to me) like he was out on the field before or right as pitcher got the ball in the first place.