8U rules conundrum

[IRISHMAFIA]

But my question is why are there umpires working these games?

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

But my question is why are there umpires working these games?

Why indeed...

I work games in a fall league that has some pretty good competition for the older kids. They also have an 8U machine pitch division. I guess that some of the guys that were getting assigned to the 8U games complained about it, so the lady that runs the league decided to rotate the umpires through all the age divisions.

I really like working this league. They have nice fields, it's close to home, there's a laid back atmosphere and it's a chance to be out umpiring during a slow time of the year. But this week, I have to pay my penance...

My number came up and I get to work three 8U games on Sunday. I just hope that I can stay awake through the whole thing!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Why indeed...

I work games in a fall league that has some pretty good competition for the older kids. They also have an 8U machine pitch division. I guess that some of the guys that were getting assigned to the 8U games complained about it, so the lady that runs the league decided to rotate the umpires through all the age divisions.

I really like working this league. They have nice fields, it's close to home, there's a laid back atmosphere and it's a chance to be out umpiring during a slow time of the year. But this week, I have to pay my penance...

My number came up and I get to work three 8U games on Sunday. I just hope that I can stay awake through the whole thing!

I've seen awful 8U ball ... and I've seen great 8U ball... the league closer to my home, just 20 miles east of where I was working, has REALLY good 8U ball - the allstar team that this league generates fares well at state every year (interesting considering the rotation of kids and coaches year to year... and also interesting considering these very same girls do NOT complete well at state 2 years later at 10U!); winning state a couple of times recently.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

But my question is why are there umpires working these games?

It's 8U. About half the 8U around here has umpires, and half doesn't. After this week, they may well decide not to. However, the LP indicated that he might want no umpires for league play, and then umpires for tourney. To me, that's the worst of both worlds. Either pay for the umpire so that they learn during the year and know what to expect during tourney ... or DON'T pay for the umpire and DON'T have an umpire for the tourney. Consistency is key. Switching before the tournament is about the worst thing they could do in my book.

[MD Longhorn]

A couple of interesting points made here... thanks all - that's exactly why I posted it.

It seems to be the consensus, at least, that I (yes, I was PU) called time at the proper time. My supervisor (as well as at least 2 of our most experienced umpires) indicated that I should have let the play play out a bit more and not be so quick on calling time. 99.9% of the time if any of these 3 (much less all 3) are going to give me advice, I'm accepting the advice and thanking them for it... I respect all 3 that much. In THIS case, however, I feel their advice is dead wrong.

I take it a step further... if I was a coach (not a rat... a coach!) and the umpire did not kill it - I feel I'd have a valid protest (assuming I can get the umpire to admit he didn't kill it because he felt there was further play to be had, and not simply judgement that F1 didn't have control or something along those lines)... The rules simply say that what F1 did stops play. Period. In fact, the idea that I prevented the defense from executing a play or prevented offense from continuing to run kind of irks me ... as that is the PURPOSE of this rule - giving the defense a way to stop play and prevent offense from continuing to run.

The most interesting idea I've read above, and didn't consider on the field, was the thought that the "placement" of the runners in this situation might be similar to an "award" - and if it's an award (a la ball out of play, obs, etc), the runner should be allowed to complete their baserunning duties. Obviously, this being a made up Calvinball rule, there's no right answer. The rules don't use the word AWARD when giving the runner the base after where they stand at the moment of the dead ball... so I could see the justification of NOT allowing them to go back and retouch before continuing home... but the acts of Placement and Award are similar enough that I could see justifying allowing it as well. Obviously - this is a point that should be clarified by the Calvinballrulemakers.

(And then ... if we call this an award, and the runner returns to 3rd without retouching home... and then goes home --- do we have a LTB issue?!?!)

[BretMan]

If you consider the "placement" of runners the same as a "base award"...this rule creates the first example I can ever recall of a negative base award (when the runner isn't yet to the halfway line and gets sent backwards).

That doesn't seem very "rewarding".

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BretMan

If you consider the "placement" of runners the same as a "base award"...this rule creates the first example I can ever recall of a negative base award (when the runner isn't yet to the halfway line and gets sent backwards).

That doesn't seem very "rewarding".

Well that's not true at all. How many times to you have obstruction but only award the preceding base? All the time.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

But my question is why are there umpires working these games?

I used to NOT provide umpires at 8U, but my customers really want/need it. Combination of justifying registration fees and redirecting disputes from the teams and parents to a neutral arbiter.

The best part, for me as an assignor, is that our youth slowpitch has dried up; leagues just don't make anymore. I can still redirect those unable (physically) or unwilling to work fastpitch to coach pitch 8U, and keep them working (while not tieing up an experienced umpire). I also use it to get some young teens some experience at game management, without putting them in "real" fastpitch.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I used to NOT provide umpires at 8U, but my customers really want/need it. Combination of justifying registration fees and redirecting disputes from the teams and parents to a neutral arbiter.

I understand the registration side, but what I have seen is more like the "want/need" was more "I don't want to do that", for one of two reasons: they don't want to be screamed at by other parents, or they believe it is beneath their social status, like some people consider working the concession stand.

8U do not need umpires, they need coaches. IMO, it is a waste of money, but to some parents it is worth it.

The best part, for me as an assignor, is that our youth slowpitch has dried up; leagues just don't make anymore. I can still redirect those unable (physically) or unwilling to work fastpitch to coach pitch 8U, and keep them working (while not tieing up an experienced umpire). I also use it to get some young teens some experience at game management, without putting them in "real" fastpitch.

Second point is regional in that a lot of areas just do not have enough umpires to use up such a valuable resource. Obviously, that is not the case everywhere, but I would rather see the parents get a work out in the field of umpiring which may help develop a better opinion of what its like to be on the field. Granted, this reasoning is greedy and self-serving, but I don't care.