Obstruction in Cluster**** after D3K

[Andy]

Obviously, RKB has listened to me rant about obstruction for the last few years.....

What I want to know is why do we still have umpires that continue to look for reasons not to call obstruction instead of calling it and administering it correctly?????

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Andy

What I want to know is why do we still have umpires that continue to look for reasons not to call obstruction instead of calling it and administering it correctly?????

C'mon now, Andy, we have all heard the "reasons" over and over.

Not rewarding 'x' for whatever 'x' didn't do, even though 'y' violated.
'Y' was just doing whatever 'y' does, so that shouldn't count against them.
'X' wouldn't have been safe anyway, so 'x' shouldn't be rewarded.
'X' abandoned running.
'X' picked a path to run that caused 'Y' to violate.
And, that isn't the 'intent' of the rule.

Did I miss any?

Related, I had a member of my group locally tell me just yesterday that another member (one who posts here, too) told him yesterday that it isn't obstruction on an attempted steal of second if runner is forced to change her path to avoid the covering defender chasing an errant throw, assumably because the fielder was just doing what she had to, to get the ball. He (the one asking me) seemed to know that couldn't be right, but said the other was adament enough to make him ask.

[MD Longhorn]

"Batter is dodging girls" Unless "girls" had the ball.... this is obviously obstruction. Umpires that won't call it piss me off and generally make the rest of our lives more difficult.

[BretMan]

If you agree this is obstruction...

What about the base award? ASA has published at least one "special case" involving obstruction on a batter-runner before reaching first base (when a fly ball is caught).

If this B/R was thrown out by "4-5 feet", then it's pretty easy to judge that she likely would have been safe otherwise. But what if this runner had been bumped into by, say, the third baseman, somewhere along the third base line as she began running from the vicinity of her dugout. Then, suppose she is thrown out at first after going only a couple more steps.

Can we rule that the obstruction did not prevent the B/R from reaching first base and call her out anyway (since you obviously can't put her back at home)? Or do we have to award first base?

[Andy]

Originally Posted by BretMan

If you agree this is obstruction...

What about the base award? ASA has published at least one "special case" involving obstruction on a batter-runner before reaching first base (when a fly ball is caught).

If this B/R was thrown out by "4-5 feet", then it's pretty easy to judge that she likely would have been safe otherwise. But what if this runner had been bumped into by, say, the third baseman, somewhere along the third base line as she began running from the vicinity of her dugout. Then, suppose she is thrown out at first after going only a couple more steps.

Can we rule that the obstruction did not prevent the B/R from reaching first base and call her out anyway (since you obviously can't put her back at home)? Or do we have to award first base?

ASA 8-5-B1: An obstructed runner may not be called out between the two bases where obstructed.

Since we can't call her out (see above), and we can't put her back at home, we HAVE to award first base.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by Andy

ASA 8-5-B1: An obstructed runner may not be called out between the two bases where obstructed.

Since we can't call her out (see above), and we can't put her back at home, we HAVE to award first base.

I was thinking of the play ASA published on their website a few years ago.

Batter hits fly ball to the outfield. Between home and first she collides with a defensive player and umpire signals obstruction. The fly ball is then caught.

The ruling is that the batter-runner is still out. You don't award first base on that one. I could see a parallel on this play if the B/R being impeded had no bearing on her safely reaching first base.

[youngump]

I'm pretty sure that that case play is not meant to be expanded here. I don't think a batter called out for hitting a caught fly ball is called out between any two bases but a runner put out on a force at first was definitely called out between first and home.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BretMan

I was thinking of the play ASA published on their website a few years ago.

Batter hits fly ball to the outfield. Between home and first she collides with a defensive player and umpire signals obstruction. The fly ball is then caught.

The ruling is that the batter-runner is still out. You don't award first base on that one. I could see a parallel on this play if the B/R being impeded had no bearing on her safely reaching first base.

There is a reason this one is considered a special case. It's not meant to be parallel to any play (ANY!) where BR could still conceivably be safe. The only reason THAT play is ruled differently than you might if you just went straight by the rule and nothing else is that the obstruction of the runner has NOTHING to do with whether BR was going to be out or not. It's not meant to parallel ANYTHING else or be extrapolated at all.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by BretMan

I was thinking of the play ASA published on their website a few years ago.

Batter hits fly ball to the outfield. Between home and first she collides with a defensive player and umpire signals obstruction. The fly ball is then caught.

The ruling is that the batter-runner is still out. You don't award first base on that one. I could see a parallel on this play if the B/R being impeded had no bearing on her safely reaching first base.

That is the ONLY exception on a batter-runner, who absolutely could never be safe since the fly ball was caught. In every other case, absent a running violation by BR that supercedes by rule, the BR must be awarded a base.

[jr131981]

Originally Posted by Andy

ASA 8-5-B1: An obstructed runner may not be called out between the two bases where obstructed.

Since we can't call her out (see above), and we can't put her back at home, we HAVE to award first base.

hogwash, i say make her bat again and tell her to hit the damn ball this time.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jr131981

hogwash, i say make her bat again and tell her to hit the damn ball this time.

I can't tell if you're joking...

[SRW]

Originally Posted by Andy

ASA 8-5-B1: An obstructed runner may not be called out between the two bases where obstructed.

Since we can't call her out (see above), and we can't put her back at home, we HAVE to award first base.

Sure you can call her out. There's 5 ways you can call her out. Keep reading the rule you cited.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by Andy

Obviously, RKB has listened to me rant about obstruction for the last few years.....

What I want to know is why do we still have umpires that continue to look for reasons not to call obstruction instead of calling it and administering it correctly?????

Heck... it's easier to just CALL IT instead of trying to find ways NOT to call it...