tagging-up

[ontheway]

R on 1st and 2nd Fly ball hit to shallow outfield. runner on 2nd leaves bag. Ball is caught. thrown to third then thrown to second to beat that runner back to the bag. My question is...must the runner be tagged to be hammered out? or is the ball being secured on the base sufficient?

thanks in advance for the help

[UmpireErnie]

Leaving a base too soon is an appeal play. In a live ball appeal the defense need only touch the bag with the ball in possession to get the out.

In a typical left too soon live ball appeal it is obvious to all why the defense is throwing to/touching the base. Defensive players are yelling “No tag! Two, two!” while the runner is scampering back to the bag. But in your original post (the defense throwing to 3B first then throwing to 2B) I would want more info. Did the fielder at 2B try to tag the runner? Maybe the defense is just playing on this runner in a run down, oblivious to the fact that they can appeal her leaving 2B to soon.

Let me expand your play a bit for the sake of discussion.

PLAY: R1 at 2B, no out. B2 pops up to F8. R1 does not tag up and is running to 3B. F8 throws to F5 ahead of R1. R1 turns and retreats toward 2B. F5 throws to F4 who attempts to tag R1, but R1 slides in under the tag. F4 was in contact with 2B when she caught the ball.

RULING: Safe! Nothing the defense did tells me they are appealing R1 leaving 2B too soon. They are just trying to make a tag play on a runner off base. If the defense now wants to appeal it is too late as R1 has now returned to the base prior to a valid appeal being made.

[ontheway]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

Leaving a base too soon is an appeal play. In a live ball appeal the defense need only touch the bag with the ball in possession to get the out.

In a typical left too soon live ball appeal it is obvious to all why the defense is throwing to/touching the base. Defensive players are yelling “No tag! Two, two!” while the runner is scampering back to the bag. But in your original post (the defense throwing to 3B first then throwing to 2B) I would want more info. Did the fielder at 2B try to tag the runner? Maybe the defense is just playing on this runner in a run down, oblivious to the fact that they can appeal her leaving 2B to soon.

Let me expand your play a bit for the sake of discussion.

PLAY: R1 at 2B, no out. B2 pops up to F8. R1 does not tag up and is running to 3B. F8 throws to F5 ahead of R1. R1 turns and retreats toward 2B. F5 throws to F4 who attempts to tag R1, but R1 slides in under the tag. F4 was in contact with 2B when she caught the ball.

RULING: Safe! Nothing the defense did tells me they are appealing R1 leaving 2B too soon. They are just trying to make a tag play on a runner off base. If the defense now wants to appeal it is too late as R1 has now returned to the base prior to a valid appeal being made.

Mens SP league. IDK what else I can tell you other than EVERYONE within 5 miles knew he left early he was almost half way between 2nd and 3rd

[Andy]

What Ernie is trying to say is that YOU must know that the reason they are throwing the ball to second, as in your play, is to appeal the runner leaving early on a caught fly ball. If you are confident that the defense is appealing the runner leaving early, then touching the base left early while holding the ball is sufficient to get the out.

On an appeal play, the defense must give the umpire some clue as to what they are doing. The fact that the defense threw the ball to third base first could bring some doubt as to whether they (defense) knew the runner left early. Now, if they are yelling at the third baseman..."Hey, throw it to second" or something like that...that's good enough for me.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ontheway

Mens SP league. IDK what else I can tell you other than EVERYONE within 5 miles knew he left early he was almost half way between 2nd and 3rd

That's irrelevant though. You must judge (meaning ... YOUR judgement is all that matters) if the defense was touching the base on purpose, to get the runner out. If, as you say, it was obvious to the whole world that he left early, and they threw it to 2nd to get that out, no tag is necessary. Use whatever evidence you need (like ... the fielder stepped on the bag with the ball and then looked at you, or even flipped the ball to the circle and ran off the field). If that throw to 2nd was for the purposes of making an out, you have an out. They may not know the word ... but that is an appeal.

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by ontheway

Mens SP league. IDK what else I can tell you other than EVERYONE within 5 miles knew he left early he was almost half way between 2nd and 3rd

Again the short answer to your original question is: the defense need only touch the base left too soon while in possession of the ball to complete a live ball appeal and get the out.

The only reason I brought up the question of whether or not the defense was making a live ball appeal is that your OP says that the defense first threw to 3B when the base left early was 2B.

[ontheway]

Thanks guys..my UIC told me there had to be a tag. he flipped my call during the game can anyone cite the rule for me?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by ontheway

Thanks guys..my UIC told me there had to be a tag. he flipped my call during the game can anyone cite the rule for me?

I won't cite the rule, as you should look it up. But, I can tell you to look at the definition of a live ball "appeal", the RS associated with "Appeals", and the section entitled " A runner is out when" ...

[ontheway]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I won't cite the rule, as you should look it up. But, I can tell you to look at the definition of a live ball "appeal", the RS associated with "Appeals", and the section entitled " A runner is out when" ...

I Love the way you think! Seriously! Thanks!

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by ontheway

I Love the way you think! !

Or at leats the way he writes.