Double first base, appealing

[bainsey]

If I recall correctly, if there's a play at first base, and the batter-runner touches only the white portion of the base, the defense must appeal the play before the batter-runner returns to first.

What if the batter-runner chooses not to return to first? What if the ball gets away, and the runner takes off for second? How does that affect the window for appeal?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by bainsey

If I recall correctly, if there's a play at first base, and the batter-runner touches only the white portion of the base, the defense must appeal the play before the batter-runner returns to first.

What if the batter-runner chooses not to return to first? What if the ball gets away, and the runner takes off for second? How does that affect the window for appeal?

I'm assuming ASA here...

If they advance beyond first base, the defense may certainly appeal the missed base (1st base).

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by bainsey

If I recall correctly, if there's a play at first base, and the batter-runner touches only the white portion of the base, the defense must appeal the play before the batter-runner returns to first.

What if the batter-runner chooses not to return to first? What if the ball gets away, and the runner takes off for second? How does that affect the window for appeal?

No affect at all. Any missed base may be appealed until 1) it is corrected (so no longer missed), or 2) a next pitch, legal or illegal is thrown, or 3) if the end of inning, before all infielders have left the field, or 4) if the end of the game, before the umpires have left the field.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

No affect at all. Any missed base may be appealed until 1) it is corrected (so no longer missed), or 2) a next pitch, legal or illegal is thrown, or 3) if the end of inning, before all infielders have left the field, or 4) if the end of the game, before the umpires have left the field.

Which reminds me, the rule book would be a lot shorter and easier reading if " a next pitch, legal or illegal is thrown, or 3) if the end of inning, before all infielders have left the field, or 4) if the end of the game, before the umpires have left the field" was in a standard definition instead of repeated so much.
[/dreaming off]

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

No affect at all. Any missed base may be appealed until 1) it is corrected (so no longer missed), or 2) a next pitch, legal or illegal is thrown, or 3) if the end of inning, before all infielders have left the field, or 4) if the end of the game, before the umpires have left the field.

Actually, 8-2-M-2 has a shorter appeal window when double first bases are used:

Whenever a play is being made by an infielder on the batter-runner, the defense must use the white portion and the batter-runner the colored portion. The batter-runner is out when there is a play being being made a first base and the batter runner touches only the white portion, providing the defense appeals prior to the batter-runner returning to the base. Once the runner returns to the white, no appeal can be made.

So, are you saying that, if the batter-runner returns to first, the appeal window is closed, but if he goes to any other base, the window remains open?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Actually, 8-2-M-2 has a shorter appeal window when double first bases are used:

What does a foul ball have to do with the appeal. But Steve summarized an appeal for a missed base.

So, are you saying that, if the batter-runner returns to first, the appeal window is closed, but if he goes to any other base, the window remains open?

Just like any other base. FORGET the double-base issue. You may be trying to find something special that is not there.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

What does a foul ball have to do with the appeal.

It doesn't. I meant 8-2-M-3. Thanks.

You may be trying to find something special that is not there.

Actually, I believe I'm pointing out something that isn't there. Unless I'm missing something (and I could be), I see an inconsistency.

Again, if a batter-runner that only touches the white on a play at first is called safe, the window for appeal remains open until he returns to first. (That's a different window than the usual before-the-next-pitch.) If he never goes back to first, though, why should the window for appeal be different, just because he's gone to a different base?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by bainsey

It doesn't. I meant 8-2-M-3. Thanks.

Actually, I believe I'm pointing out something that isn't there. Unless I'm missing something (and I could be), I see an inconsistency.

Again, if a batter-runner that only touches the white on a play at first is called safe, the window for appeal remains open until he returns to first. (That's a different window than the usual before-the-next-pitch.) If he never goes back to first, though, why should the window for appeal be different, just because he's gone to a different base?

The window for appeal ends when she returns to touch first because, well............. once she returns to touch first, she no longer has missed first!!!


If she never goes back to first (continues on to 2nd) then she still has missed 1st.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Actually, 8-2-M-2 has a shorter appeal window when double first bases are used:

No, it doesn't ... that's exactly the same.

So, are you saying that, if the batter-runner returns to first, the appeal window is closed, but if he goes to any other base, the window remains open?

I'm not sure why this is difficult. Yes. Of course. He a runner returns and touches a missed base, they've corrected their error - whether this runner is at 2nd or a BR hitting the wrong bag at 1st. Same thing exactly. Once they return to 1st, they've corrected their error.

[Umpteenth]

Originally Posted by bainsey

If I recall correctly, if there's a play at first base, and the batter-runner touches only the white portion of the base, the defense must appeal the play before the batter-runner returns to first.

What if the batter-runner chooses not to return to first? What if the ball gets away, and the runner takes off for second? How does that affect the window for appeal?

Rule 8 Batter-Runner and Runner
Section 2. Batter-Runner is Out
Section 7. Runner is Out

Section 2 would obviously apply because we have a Batter-Runner (BR).

8.2.M.3 clearly identifies the sitch in the OP, and provides the Effect. If a play is made at 1st base on the BR, regardless of what happens subsequent to that play, the BR is still required to use the contrasting color portion of the base. If the throw to 1st is wide (or high) and pulls F3 off the bag, the BR is still obligated to use the contrasting color portion of the bag (a play is made on the BR). If the ball gets away from F3, BR only contacts the white portion of the bag and then decides to continue to 2nd, the runner is still obligated to touch 1st as part of normal base-running responsibilities. Remember, having passed 1st base, the BR becomes a runner.

The appeal window is still open, until the BR returns to 1st (8.2.M.3), or until the defense properly requests a live ball appeal. Any fielder in possession of the ball must touch the base missed, or tag the runner committing the violation, if they are still on the playing field.

If play has ended and time is called (or next pitch occurs, legal or illegal), the appeal window has expired.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Umpteenth

The appeal window is still open, until the BR returns to 1st (8.2.M.3), or until the defense properly requests a live ball appeal. Any fielder in possession of the ball must touch the base missed, or tag the runner committing the violation, if they are still on the playing field.

Is this procedure also applicable to ASA slow pitch, or is a verbal appeal acceptable prior to the runner touching first?