CWS FL-AZ plate umpire

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

Oh please, just because we are umpires doesn't mean we have to defend the umpires everytime does it? There are the few times the umpires are wrong and many more times the coaches are wrong but all should get their due. That batter reacted immediately when she got hit. Dave

General statement, no particular call noted.

No, but as an umpire you should be aware of the circumstances that may have lead to what some may say was a missed/kicked call. It always looks different from another angle, that is why, as umpires, we occassionally go to partners for help.

Defend? Maybe not. Agree? Maybe not. Understand? Absolutely

[shipwreck]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

General statement, no particular call noted.

No, but as an umpire you should be aware of the circumstances that may have lead to what some may say was a missed/kicked call. It always looks different from another angle, that is why, as umpires, we occassionally go to partners for help.

Defend? Maybe not. Agree? Maybe not. Understand? Absolutely

I agree wholeheartedly. I was just bringing up that I didn't think she had a great game. Dave

[txump81]

She was also way out of position on a call at third about 2 or 3 batters after the foul/HBP.

R1. Ground ball to F6 who threw out BR at 1B. R1 never let up and headed to 3B. PU was late in reacting and was on the move about half way up the line when the play happened. The one positive was she continued about 3 or 4 more steps to get closer as she made her safe call to at least appear to be in position.

[Bandit]

Drumm should have never been behind the plate for that game. The assigner knew she had had a tough game with these two teams earlier. The assigner let BOTH teams and Drumm down in this regard. Personally I think her partners let her down as well. How in the world did they not see the ball hit the arm. It was not even close. The problem here was elevated because of the NCAA mechanics. We all have bad games. We all have bad tournaments. Overall the umpiring was not up to the par of what we have come to expect at this level and of these selections. We could get into "agenda's" but I dont think i have enough time.

[flipper]

Originally Posted by Bandit

Drumm should have never been behind the plate for that game. The assigner knew she had had a tough game with these two teams earlier. The assigner let BOTH teams and Drumm down in this regard. Personally I think her partners let her down as well. How in the world did they not see the ball hit the arm. It was not even close. The problem here was elevated because of the NCAA mechanics. We all have bad games. We all have bad tournaments. Overall the umpiring was not up to the par of what we have come to expect at this level and of these selections. We could get into "agenda's" but I dont think i have enough time.

Very good points here.

I'm just curious about your comment on how NCAA mechanics elevated the problem. Just asking.

[Bandit]

The 3rd base umpire was rotated over due to runner on first. This umpire would have had the best view. NCAA mechanics want the plate umpire to go to the first base umpire.
Yes, I know they all got together. All for show.
But you can see by the involvement of the first base umpire in the actions that took place after the request for more information by Drumm that the rotated umpire had little involvement in any substiquent decision.

[flipper]

Originally Posted by Bandit

The 3rd base umpire was rotated over due to runner on first. This umpire would have had the best view. NCAA mechanics want the plate umpire to go to the first base umpire.
Yes, I know they all got together. All for show.
But you can see by the involvement of the first base umpire in the actions that took place after the request for more information by Drumm that the rotated umpire had little involvement in any substiquent decision.

I don't think this was ever a checked swing issue. She did not go to U1 prior to saying it went off the knob. She did, for some reason, walk 3/4 of the way to 1st before bringing the batter back. What's interesting about that is that, in a Super this year, a PU walked down to first, looked at the batter's arm, and then awarded 1st.

I'm not sure a rotated U3 would have had a better view of this than U1 on the line. This was a RH batter. I will say that if either of her partners had anything different, they should have helped her out. I'm pretty sure their coming together was NOT for show.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Bandit

The assigner knew she had had a tough game with these two teams earlier.

At all NCAA championships, the game assignments are not a decision by a single individual; there is not "an assigner." The UIC makes a recommendation to the committee, who then has the final say.

[Bandit]

Let me see if i understand this.....runner on first, plate ump is to trail BR until he/she is confident of pulled or no pulled foot. AND THEN worry about the runner that had been on first and the subsiquent call at third when that runner is busting butt to go to third.

Why would a plate umpire want to be concerned about a "possible" appeal of a play at first and not be in position for his/her Primary responsibilty of the call at third? Why would a plate umpire be worried about a call that is NOT his/her primary responsibility?

The pulled foot of a first base defensive player is not the primary call of the plate umpire.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Bandit

Let me see if i understand this.....runner on first, plate ump is to trail BR until he/she is confident of pulled or no pulled foot. AND THEN worry about the runner that had been on first and the subsiquent call at third when that runner is busting butt to go to third.

Why would a plate umpire want to be concerned about a "possible" appeal of a play at first and not be in position for his/her Primary responsibilty of the call at third? Why would a plate umpire be worried about a call that is NOT his/her primary responsibility?

The pulled foot of a first base defensive player is not the primary call of the plate umpire.

That is the responsibility of the PU to watch/help out on the pulled foot/swipe tag, etc in all codes in all umpire systems. Even in a 2 umpire system with a runner on second, you would trail (albeit a few feet), and then have the runner into third if that is the secondary play.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Bandit

Let me see if i understand this.....runner on first, plate ump is to trail BR until he/she is confident of pulled or no pulled foot.

You do understand it.

AND THEN worry about the runner that had been on first and the subsiquent call at third when that runner is busting butt to go to third.

You got it. Other than misspelling subsequent twice (2 different ways even).

Why would a plate umpire want to be concerned about a "possible" appeal of a play at first and not be in position for his/her Primary responsibilty of the call at third?

Two possibilities ... a) because said umpire wants to work again, b) because the umpire has been to a clinic and knows their responsibilities on this play.

Why would a plate umpire be worried about a call that is NOT his/her primary responsibility?

I doubt PU was worried. PU was operating as told and taught though.

The pulled foot of a first base defensive player is not the primary call of the plate umpire.

Says who? You... vs NCAA mechanic manuals and clinics (among others)? I choose the latter - no offense intended.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

At all NCAA championships, the game assignments are not a decision by a single individual; there is not "an assigner." The UIC makes a recommendation to the committee, who then has the final say.

I was surprised to see her back there also.. she DID have a tough two previous games....but she's there....I'm not....

[CecilOne]

Are we finished criticizing other officials on a public forum?

[DNTXUM P]

Originally Posted by txump81

She was also way out of position on a call at third about 2 or 3 batters after the foul/HBP.

R1. Ground ball to F6 who threw out BR at 1B. R1 never let up and headed to 3B. PU was late in reacting and was on the move about half way up the line when the play happened. The one positive was she continued about 3 or 4 more steps to get closer as she made her safe call to at least appear to be in position.

NCAA Mechanics require the plate umpire to hold on the 1st base line extended to watch for a pulled foot before releasing to 3B for the play. You do not cheat and watch for a pulled foot while you are running toward 3B.

The first play (at 1B) is the first responsibility, then release to 3B. If a runner is going from 1 to 3, and is very fast, it is possible that the plate umpire might not make it all the way to 3B when the play happens.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by DNTXUM P

NCAA Mechanics require the plate umpire to hold on the 1st base line extended to watch for a pulled foot before releasing to 3B for the play. You do not cheat and watch for a pulled foot while you are running toward 3B.

The first play (at 1B) is the first responsibility, then release to 3B. If a runner is going from 1 to 3, and is very fast, it is possible that the plate umpire might not make it all the way to 3B when the play happens.

ASA is not as detailed, but appears to be similar, trailing the runner first.

Not clear to me what U3 should be doing in this sitch.