Confusion on the bases...

[McMac]

Let me start this by saying, I am not a softball umpire, but I am a basketball and football official. I was playing in my church league game tonight and this happened. Rules set: USSSA

Situation: 2 umpires, BU is behind 2nd. 1 out. R1 at first, Batter hits fly ball to LF down the line. F7 makes play on the line and drops the ball in foul territory. PU puts right arm out at about 45 degree angle (not knowing if he is calling fair/foul). He never says foul. R1 advanced to 2nd on assumption that it was fair, BR goes to first. As told to me, BU called it foul. I here PU call time when the ball had reached back into the infield.

So R1 began to retreat to 1st in thinking that it was now a foul ball. BR began walking back down 1st base line. F1 then throws ball to 2nd and tags bag. BU calls him out. BR made it back to 1st before any tag applied.

In all discussion between umpires, they ruled it was a fair ball, no one called time, no one called foul. So R1 is out for abandonment of the base.

Is this correct? Is there any way in the confusion that the runner could be put back on the base?

Thanks for any help!

[LIUmp]

Oh, boy....if what you're saying is true, sounds like a 10-3-C situation.

May want to read that thread.

[McMac]

Can an out be called in this situation if "time" has been called? I know appeals can be called, but would this be an appeal?

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by McMac

Let me start this by saying, I am not a softball umpire, but I am a basketball and football official. I was playing in my church league game tonight and this happened. Rules set: USSSA

Situation: 2 umpires, BU is behind 2nd. 1 out. R1 at first, Batter hits fly ball to LF down the line. F7 makes play on the line and drops the ball in foul territory. PU puts right arm out at about 45 degree angle (not knowing if he is calling fair/foul). He never says foul. R1 advanced to 2nd on assumption that it was fair, BR goes to first. As told to me, BU called it foul. I here PU call time when the ball had reached back into the infield.

So R1 began to retreat to 1st in thinking that it was now a foul ball. BR began walking back down 1st base line. F1 then throws ball to 2nd and tags bag. BU calls him out. BR made it back to 1st before any tag applied.

In all discussion between umpires, they ruled it was a fair ball, no one called time, no one called foul. So R1 is out for abandonment of the base.

Is this correct? Is there any way in the confusion that the runner could be put back on the base?

Thanks for any help!

If the BU called it foul and affected the runners... you fix it...

The base umpire should NOT be calling foul unless he goes out on the ball or its his assigned line (3-umpire system)

and he should NEVER, EVER mirror the call of the plate umpire. BAD things will happen if he does,,,

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by LIBlueASA

Oh, boy....if what you're saying is true, sounds like a 10-3-C situation.

May want to read that thread.

What are the odds of USSSA's God Rule having the same designation as ASA's?

[McMac]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

What are the odds of USSSA's God Rule having the same designation as ASA's?

What is the "God Rule"?

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

What are the odds of USSSA's God Rule having the same designation as ASA's?

I meant that it seems like a perfect example to use the God Rule and that he should read that thread - I did not mean it in a way that you will go saying "10-3-C" to all involved in a U trip game.

What are the odds? About the same as the odds of us ever seeing the sun again before our high school playoffs are over, perhaps?

Tastes great, less filling....tomato, tomaaahhhhhhto

[shagpal]

dude, how does a BU standing behind 2nd see a fair/foul ball hit down the line?

so as you were "told", you heard, or wanted to hear? if you heard nothing, then it's a fair ball. play on as you should.

Originally Posted by McMac

Let me start this by saying, I am not a softball umpire, but I am a basketball and football official. I was playing in my church league game tonight and this happened. Rules set: USSSA

Situation: 2 umpires, BU is behind 2nd. 1 out. R1 at first, Batter hits fly ball to LF down the line. F7 makes play on the line and drops the ball in foul territory. PU puts right arm out at about 45 degree angle (not knowing if he is calling fair/foul). He never says foul. R1 advanced to 2nd on assumption that it was fair, BR goes to first. As told to me, BU called it foul. I here PU call time when the ball had reached back into the infield.

So R1 began to retreat to 1st in thinking that it was now a foul ball. BR began walking back down 1st base line. F1 then throws ball to 2nd and tags bag. BU calls him out. BR made it back to 1st before any tag applied.

In all discussion between umpires, they ruled it was a fair ball, no one called time, no one called foul. So R1 is out for abandonment of the base.

Is this correct? Is there any way in the confusion that the runner could be put back on the base?

Thanks for any help!

[MD Longhorn]

The suspicious part her was the "BU called it foul as it was told to me". Sounds to me like BU never called anything of the sort (nor should he). Perhaps it was F4 that called it foul? Who told you BU called anything?

In any case, you can't get 2 outs here. It's a dead ball. At the very most, I can see 1 for whoever left their base first if USSSA slowpitch (never called U-Trip Slowpitch) has some sort of rule about leaving the base while the pitcher has the ball. But even then - it would just be the first runner that left.

I strongly think you have NO outs on this play.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Like others, I haven't ever done USSSA. But I think the biggest and most telling points in the OP have been ignored.

First,

Originally Posted by OP

I here PU call time when the ball had reached back into the infield.

Does any umpire ever call time after a foul ball is returned to the infield?? PU obviously ruled a fair ball.

Second,

Originally Posted by OP

I here PU call time when the ball had reached back into the infield.

Dead ball!! Time was called. No "abandonment", or any other rule about leaving a base. No organization can possibly have a rule allowing any such ruling during dead ball play. Ever.

Just handled wrong by the umpires on the field. The OP doesn't say (or even remotely suggest) the next batter was in the box and umpire made the ball live. No rules support possible.

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by McMac

What is the "God Rule"?

The original poster did say it was a church league...

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Like others, I haven't ever done USSSA. But I think the biggest and most telling points in the OP have been ignored.

First,

Does any umpire ever call time after a foul ball is returned to the infield??

Maybe. Is this coed and playing with different balls for men and women? If that's the case, then time would be called to switch balls.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Maybe. Is this coed and playing with different balls for men and women? If that's the case, then time would be called to switch balls.

Really?

Really?

A) So you're saying you might call time during a dead ball for this? Why - the ball's already dead.

B) More importantly - why are you changing batters after a foul ball?

[McMac]

Sorry I have not been around to respond to some of this, family emergency.

This was a Men's game.
No next batter ever made it to the box, because our team began to argue the call.
I was coaching at 3rd on this play. The 1B coach was the one who told me that he called it foul.

I agree with the reasoning that there is no point to call time if it is a foul ball. It was our fault for leaving the bases, but when you see runners going back to bases they previously occupied, is there not a sense of "oh crap, what is happening?"

Thanks for the help!

[shagpal]

so, base ump calls a runner out AFTER he allegedly calls a "foul ball" from the B position or button hooked? or calls runner out AFTER PU calls time? I think your 1B coach is smoking crack or smoking up your crack, or both.

the next time you see that 1B coach, you should punch him in the nose...church league or not.

I don't do u-trip, but umps got it right. R1 out on the force at second.

sorry to hear about your family emergency.

Originally Posted by McMac

Sorry I have not been around to respond to some of this, family emergency.

This was a Men's game.
No next batter ever made it to the box, because our team began to argue the call.
I was coaching at 3rd on this play. The 1B coach was the one who told me that he called it foul.

I agree with the reasoning that there is no point to call time if it is a foul ball. It was our fault for leaving the bases, but when you see runners going back to bases they previously occupied, is there not a sense of "oh crap, what is happening?"

Thanks for the help!