application of ASA 10.3.C (detailed play)

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

you are getting caught up in the mud.

Someone called me a mudder, the udder day.
I wonder now if that is what they meant.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Quote:
Originally Posted by okla21fan
...
Now as R1 is being chased back to 3rd and it looks like she will finally be tagged. R1 'looks' over her left shoulder (away from 3rd) to see the defensive player, causing her to veer further away from 3rd. THEN AFTER R1 VEERS - [sic] Defensive player dives, and attempts a tag on R1, of course, as tag is applied, ball pops out of glove.
...

Seems like you answered your own question.
Nothing in what you write indicates she was avoiding a tag.

That's the way I read the sequence, also.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

you are getting caught up in the mud.
.

Yeah, but we all agree on the dry dirt, so we have to talk about something.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

you are getting caught up in the mud.

My partner had it, and had the angle needed to make such a judgement. That is good enough for me, his judgment is/was not in question. The mistake was simply not calling the violation he saw because he thought I was going to call it. (again, my angle and POV was from inside the diamond. The 'play' and failed tag was between the coaches box, and dugout. ) While I could not tell from the veering that it was avoiding, my partner did. His added input and POV was enough.

I understood the "basepath violation" part of your description from the beginning......

[tcannizzo]

'splain me, Lucy.

[Ed Maeder]

I guess I'll ask the question. Why were you involved in the run down when you had multiple runners behind it? I know this was 14 U but there could have been a play during or after the run down that would have had you very much out of position to make the call. This sounds like it was the plate umpires call all the way.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder

I guess I'll ask the question. Why were you involved in the run down when you had multiple runners behind it? I know this was 14 U but there could have been a play during or after the run down that would have had you very much out of position to make the call. This sounds like it was the plate umpires call all the way.

What? 14U throwing the ball around? Say it ain't so!!

But that is a damn good question. I just assued it was a 3U system, guess I shouldn't had.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder

Why were you involved in the run down when you had multiple runners behind it?

Because there here were multiple return throws from the home plate area to the 3rd base area The 1st return throw brought me into the play.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

Because there here were multiple return throws from the home plate area to the 3rd base area The 1st return throw brought me into the play.

Sorry, but Ed's correct. In a two umpire system with multiple active runners, you can't "box" a rundown.

I do agree with your application of 10.3.C, and your placement of runners after the reversal of the call.

At the risk of stating the obvious, the PU has the lead runner on the base hit. When she rounded third, she is the PUs runner, the BU then has the trailing runner. The PU should have covered the rundown by himself, while the BU covered the trailing runners, while being available to offer another set of eyes if needed. If you are both on the rundown, you have no idea what happened while R2 and R3 were advancing to second and third base during the rundown.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by Andy

Sorry, but Ed's correct. In a two umpire system with multiple active runners, you can't "box" a rundown.

I do agree with your application of 10.3.C, and your placement of runners after the reversal of the call.

At the risk of stating the obvious, the PU has the lead runner on the base hit. When she rounded third, she is the PUs runner, the BU then has the trailing runner. The PU should have covered the rundown by himself, while the BU covered the trailing runners, while being available to offer another set of eyes if needed. If you are both on the rundown, you have no idea what happened while R2 and R3 were advancing to second and third base during the rundown.

While I understand what you are saying:
We are taught this mechanic from the umpire manual

"There are four times when the base umpire will make the call at third base.
1) On the B/R on a triple with no runners on base
2) On the last runner into third base
3) On a lone runner on fly ball advancement
4) On any return throw from the plate area or cut of by a player."

As soon as there was a 'return' throw, (and I button hooked from the C slot), I was drawn into to the call at third.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

While I understand what you are saying:
We are taught this mechanic from the umpire manual

"There are four times when the base umpire will make the call at third base.
1) On the B/R on a triple with no runners on base
2) On the last runner into third base
3) On a lone runner on fly ball advancement
4) On any return throw from the plate area or cut of by a player."

As soon as there was a 'return' throw, (and I button hooked from the C slot), I was drawn into to the call at third.

Yes, immediately, but not ad infinitum. How many obstruction calls did you miss behind you on the other runners?

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Yes, immediately, but not ad infinitum. How many obstruction calls did you miss behind you on the other runners?

none

[Andy]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

While I understand what you are saying:
We are taught this mechanic from the umpire manual

"There are four times when the base umpire will make the call at third base.
1) On the B/R on a triple with no runners on base
2) On the last runner into third base
3) On a lone runner on fly ball advancement
4) On any return throw from the plate area or cut of by a player."

As soon as there was a 'return' throw, (and I button hooked from the C slot), I was drawn into to the call at third.

The area you bolded refers to the situation where a runner is coming home and another runner is coming to third base. The PU needs to stay near the plate for the potential play there. If the ball is late getting to the catcher or is cut off by an infielder, then a play is attempted on the runner going to third, the BU would take that call at third, because the PU ain't gonna get there!

In your situation, with runners on 1st and 2nd and a base hit, the PU should come up toward third base to take the lead runner there, then be prepared to take her home if necessary. The BU comes inside the infield, watches the two trailing runners touch their respective bases, looks for obstruction, etc, etc...

When the lead runner rounded third, the PU has her all the way. When the rundown situation became apparent..the whole thing belongs to the PU. Good communication helps here alot..."Partner, I got this this, you got the other runners."

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by Andy

The area you bolded refers to the situation where a runner is coming home and another runner is coming to third base. The PU needs to stay near the plate for the potential play there. If the ball is late getting to the catcher or is cut off by an infielder, then a play is attempted on the runner going to third, the BU would take that call at third, because the PU ain't gonna get there!

In your situation, with runners on 1st and 2nd and a base hit, the PU should come up toward third base to take the lead runner there, then be prepared to take her home if necessary. The BU comes inside the infield, watches the two trailing runners touch their respective bases, looks for obstruction, etc, etc...

When the lead runner rounded third, the PU has her all the way. When the rundown situation became apparent..the whole thing belongs to the PU. Good communication helps here alot..."Partner, I got this this, you got the other runners."

You have done this before.....