Application of the lookback rule

[BratzCoach]

Last night the following situation occurred during a 14u game:

With a runner on 2nd and 1 out, the batter hit the ball cleanly into the outfield. The runner on 2nd rounded 3rd and headed home. The center fielder threw toward home, but the pitcher cut off the ball as the runner was going to score. As the batter rounded 2nd base, the pitcher stepped in to the circle, and on to the pitching plate.

The batter stopped about 6 feet off off of 2nd base, between 2nd and 3rd, and stood there for a good 5 seconds before walking back to the base. The pitcher did not raise her arm or make any kind of movement toward the batter.

When I questioned the umpires as to why they did not call the runner out due to the lookback rule, they told me that the runner could take as long as they wanted to to decide which way to go, as long as they held still. My understanding is that the runner must immediately commit one way or the other, and that's the way I've seen it called in HS ball.

What is the correct application here?

[NCASAUmp]

If this were ASA, it would not be a correct application of the LBR. The LBR states that once the pitcher has control of the ball in the circle and the batter-runner has reached 1B or been put out, the LBR is in effect. Runners that are off base must "immediately return to the base or attempt to advance to the next base."

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BratzCoach

they told me that the runner could take as long as they wanted to to decide which way to go, as long as they held still.

This is EXACTLY what the runner is PROHIBITED from doing. Standing still (along with reversing direction more than once). Yuck. 100 lashes for that umpire.

[BratzCoach]

Thanks for the prompt replies.

This was a house league, and both of the umps were teens. I'm not interested in giving them a hard time, but I do like let the UIC know when they've made a rule interpretation error so that it can be corrected. I wanted to check before I said anything.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

If this were ASA, it would not be a correct application of the LBR. The LBR states that once the pitcher has control of the ball in the circle and the batter-runner has reached 1B or been put out, the LBR is in effect. Runners that are off base must "immediately return to the base or attempt to advance to the next base."

However, while it is true the runner cannot stand there as long as they want, the runners must be permitted some latitude as they cannot be expected to immediately advance or return to a base just because the pitcher catches a thrown ball in the middle of a play and steps in the circle. Gotta be some allowance for them to find the ball and relize the player with the ball is the pitcher and has ceased to be a defender in the midst of a play and reassumed the position of pitcher.

[tcannizzo]

One-thousand one, one-thousand-dead ball.

[BretMan]

BTW BratzCoach...While you're hashing out the Look Back Rule, keep in mind that the pitching plate has zero, nada, absolutely nothing to do with the rule.

(Maybe you already realize that, but I wasn't sure since you mentioned it in your post.)

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

However, while it is true the runner cannot stand there as long as they want, the runners must be permitted some latitude as they cannot be expected to immediately advance or return to a base just because the pitcher catches a thrown ball in the middle of a play and steps in the circle. Gotta be some allowance for them to find the ball and relize the player with the ball is the pitcher and has ceased to be a defender in the midst of a play and reassumed the position of pitcher.

Absolutely, which is why...

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

One-thousand one, one-thousand-dead ball.

This was about to be my next post until Tony beat me to it.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Absolutely, which is why...



This was about to be my next post until Tony beat me to it.

I disagree with a hard and fast 1 second call. I agree with the leeway mentioned by Mike. In the OP, the leeway would be FAR greater (maybe even more than your 1 1/2 second count), as the runner must realize the fielder is no longer a fielder and is making no play, than most other LBR situations. For example - after a walk, the ball returned to pitcher and the pitcher simply standing there - batter knows EXACTLY where the ball is, and knows that the pitcher is making no play. If she rounds 1st and stops, her "leeway" is going to be a LOT shorter than 1 1/2 seconds.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I disagree with a hard and fast 1 second call. I agree with the leeway mentioned by Mike. In the OP, the leeway would be FAR greater (maybe even more than your 1 1/2 second count), as the runner must realize the fielder is no longer a fielder and is making no play, than most other LBR situations. For example - after a walk, the ball returned to pitcher and the pitcher simply standing there - batter knows EXACTLY where the ball is, and knows that the pitcher is making no play. If she rounds 1st and stops, her "leeway" is going to be a LOT shorter than 1 1/2 seconds.

Depends on the sitch. I'd give about 2 seconds, 3 max.

[tcannizzo]

I think the way I do it, there is some leeway, because I have the find the runners and the ball. Once that has been established, then my count begins.
If runner doesn't look for ball, then it is DMR.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Depends on the sitch. I'd give about 2 seconds, 3 max.

I don't count. My gut will tell me when it is time.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I don't count. My gut will tell me when it is time.

I agree.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I agree.

You agree with Mike's gut?

[BratzCoach]

"the pitching plate has zero, nada, absolutely nothing to do with the rule"

Actually, I was aware of that. I mentioned it because there's no circle on our fields since baseball teams use them too. But thanks :-D