application of ASA 10.3.C (detailed play)

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

If the veering started before the D tried to tag and then continued, I have base path established and no violation.

you are getting caught up in the mud.

My partner had it, and had the angle needed to make such a judgement. That is good enough for me, his judgment is/was not in question. The mistake was simply not calling the violation he saw because he thought I was going to call it. (again, my angle and POV was from inside the diamond. The 'play' and failed tag was between the coaches box, and dugout. ) While I could not tell from the veering that it was avoiding, my partner did. His added input and POV was enough.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

you are getting caught up in the mud.

Someone called me a mudder, the udder day.
I wonder now if that is what they meant.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

you are getting caught up in the mud.
.

Yeah, but we all agree on the dry dirt, so we have to talk about something.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

you are getting caught up in the mud.

My partner had it, and had the angle needed to make such a judgement. That is good enough for me, his judgment is/was not in question. The mistake was simply not calling the violation he saw because he thought I was going to call it. (again, my angle and POV was from inside the diamond. The 'play' and failed tag was between the coaches box, and dugout. ) While I could not tell from the veering that it was avoiding, my partner did. His added input and POV was enough.

I understood the "basepath violation" part of your description from the beginning......

[tcannizzo]

'splain me, Lucy.

[Ed Maeder]

I guess I'll ask the question. Why were you involved in the run down when you had multiple runners behind it? I know this was 14 U but there could have been a play during or after the run down that would have had you very much out of position to make the call. This sounds like it was the plate umpires call all the way.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder

I guess I'll ask the question. Why were you involved in the run down when you had multiple runners behind it? I know this was 14 U but there could have been a play during or after the run down that would have had you very much out of position to make the call. This sounds like it was the plate umpires call all the way.

What? 14U throwing the ball around? Say it ain't so!!

But that is a damn good question. I just assued it was a 3U system, guess I shouldn't had.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by Ed Maeder

Why were you involved in the run down when you had multiple runners behind it?

Because there here were multiple return throws from the home plate area to the 3rd base area The 1st return throw brought me into the play.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

Because there here were multiple return throws from the home plate area to the 3rd base area The 1st return throw brought me into the play.

Sorry, but Ed's correct. In a two umpire system with multiple active runners, you can't "box" a rundown.

I do agree with your application of 10.3.C, and your placement of runners after the reversal of the call.

At the risk of stating the obvious, the PU has the lead runner on the base hit. When she rounded third, she is the PUs runner, the BU then has the trailing runner. The PU should have covered the rundown by himself, while the BU covered the trailing runners, while being available to offer another set of eyes if needed. If you are both on the rundown, you have no idea what happened while R2 and R3 were advancing to second and third base during the rundown.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by Andy

Sorry, but Ed's correct. In a two umpire system with multiple active runners, you can't "box" a rundown.

I do agree with your application of 10.3.C, and your placement of runners after the reversal of the call.

At the risk of stating the obvious, the PU has the lead runner on the base hit. When she rounded third, she is the PUs runner, the BU then has the trailing runner. The PU should have covered the rundown by himself, while the BU covered the trailing runners, while being available to offer another set of eyes if needed. If you are both on the rundown, you have no idea what happened while R2 and R3 were advancing to second and third base during the rundown.

While I understand what you are saying:
We are taught this mechanic from the umpire manual

"There are four times when the base umpire will make the call at third base.
1) On the B/R on a triple with no runners on base
2) On the last runner into third base
3) On a lone runner on fly ball advancement
4) On any return throw from the plate area or cut of by a player."

As soon as there was a 'return' throw, (and I button hooked from the C slot), I was drawn into to the call at third.