Application of the lookback rule

[NCASAUmp]

If this were ASA, it would not be a correct application of the LBR. The LBR states that once the pitcher has control of the ball in the circle and the batter-runner has reached 1B or been put out, the LBR is in effect. Runners that are off base must "immediately return to the base or attempt to advance to the next base."

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

If this were ASA, it would not be a correct application of the LBR. The LBR states that once the pitcher has control of the ball in the circle and the batter-runner has reached 1B or been put out, the LBR is in effect. Runners that are off base must "immediately return to the base or attempt to advance to the next base."

However, while it is true the runner cannot stand there as long as they want, the runners must be permitted some latitude as they cannot be expected to immediately advance or return to a base just because the pitcher catches a thrown ball in the middle of a play and steps in the circle. Gotta be some allowance for them to find the ball and relize the player with the ball is the pitcher and has ceased to be a defender in the midst of a play and reassumed the position of pitcher.

[tcannizzo]

One-thousand one, one-thousand-dead ball.

[BretMan]

BTW BratzCoach...While you're hashing out the Look Back Rule, keep in mind that the pitching plate has zero, nada, absolutely nothing to do with the rule.

(Maybe you already realize that, but I wasn't sure since you mentioned it in your post.)

[BratzCoach]

"the pitching plate has zero, nada, absolutely nothing to do with the rule"

Actually, I was aware of that. I mentioned it because there's no circle on our fields since baseball teams use them too. But thanks :-D

[Tru_in_Blu]

Comments welcome.

ASA 16U. R1 on 3B, 1 out.

Batter fouls out to F5.

For some reason, everyone is confused about how many outs there were. F5 started walking the ball back to the infield.

3B coach turns and heads toward the dugout on the 3B side of the field. R1 is confused and about 8 feet off the base, wondering what to do.

Without all of the body language going on, F5 could have easily stepped on 3B for a DP. But for some reason, threw it back to the pitcher, who I assume was in the circle, but my focus was on the runner.

I'm waiting for R1 to do something, when somebody on the defense yells, throw it to third. At this point, R1 gets the clue and hustles back to the bag before a throw is made.

Now D coach is yelling about a lookback violation, because the ball was in the circle.

Did I miss the out?

Thanx.

[NCASAUmp]

When the pitcher had the ball in the circle, what was the runner doing? Was she stopped? If so, for how long? Or was she still moving?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

However, while it is true the runner cannot stand there as long as they want, the runners must be permitted some latitude as they cannot be expected to immediately advance or return to a base just because the pitcher catches a thrown ball in the middle of a play and steps in the circle. Gotta be some allowance for them to find the ball and relize the player with the ball is the pitcher and has ceased to be a defender in the midst of a play and reassumed the position of pitcher.

Absolutely, which is why...

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

One-thousand one, one-thousand-dead ball.

This was about to be my next post until Tony beat me to it.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Absolutely, which is why...



This was about to be my next post until Tony beat me to it.

I disagree with a hard and fast 1 second call. I agree with the leeway mentioned by Mike. In the OP, the leeway would be FAR greater (maybe even more than your 1 1/2 second count), as the runner must realize the fielder is no longer a fielder and is making no play, than most other LBR situations. For example - after a walk, the ball returned to pitcher and the pitcher simply standing there - batter knows EXACTLY where the ball is, and knows that the pitcher is making no play. If she rounds 1st and stops, her "leeway" is going to be a LOT shorter than 1 1/2 seconds.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I disagree with a hard and fast 1 second call. I agree with the leeway mentioned by Mike. In the OP, the leeway would be FAR greater (maybe even more than your 1 1/2 second count), as the runner must realize the fielder is no longer a fielder and is making no play, than most other LBR situations. For example - after a walk, the ball returned to pitcher and the pitcher simply standing there - batter knows EXACTLY where the ball is, and knows that the pitcher is making no play. If she rounds 1st and stops, her "leeway" is going to be a LOT shorter than 1 1/2 seconds.

Depends on the sitch. I'd give about 2 seconds, 3 max.

[tcannizzo]

I think the way I do it, there is some leeway, because I have the find the runners and the ball. Once that has been established, then my count begins.
If runner doesn't look for ball, then it is DMR.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Depends on the sitch. I'd give about 2 seconds, 3 max.

I don't count. My gut will tell me when it is time.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

One-thousand one, one-thousand-dead ball.

Too fast for the circumstance. It is NOT a "gotcha" rule.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Too fast for the circumstance. It is NOT a "gotcha" rule.

C'mon CecilUno, how do you know exactly how long he is talking about?

I can say it fast or slow.


Although I'm more of a "gut man" myself on the look back call, I do sometimes count when I find it necessary to enforce a batter or pitcher's timing.
In those cases, I'm a Chimpanzee guy - as in

1 Chimpanzie, 2 Champanzies, 3 Chimpanzies, ............

[tcannizzo]

10 little, 9 little, 8 little Indians could work too.