NCAA OBS penalty

CecilOne · #1 (**permalink**) Fri May 06, 2011, 09:40am

In NCAA, there is a rule that an OBS by the same player after a rounding/returning warning results in an automatic base award. If read literally, it says nothing about where the runner ended up on her own.

Case: after a warning, F3 obstructs R1 rounding 1st.
(A) R1 stops, goes back to 1st.
(B) R1 makes it to 2nd on her own.

In (A), R1 is awarded 2nd, but what about (B)?

MD Longhorn · #2 (**permalink**) Fri May 06, 2011, 09:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne

In NCAA, there is a rule that an OBS by the same player after a rounding/returning warning results in an automatic base award. If read literally, it says nothing about where the runner ended up on her own.

Case: after a warning, F3 obstructs R1 rounding 1st.
(A) R1 stops, goes back to 1st.
(B) R1 makes it to 2nd on her own.

In (A), R1 is awarded 2nd, but what about (B)?

You should never take "where the runner ended up on her own" into account (I believe this to be true in all rulesets).

And why are you mentioning a warning? That's not in any ruleset either (other than possible local yokel rules).

I believe (assuming you're really CecilOne and not a hacker) that you already know this. But A) is not correct either. It's not an automatic award.

HugoTafurst · #3 (**permalink**) Fri May 06, 2011, 10:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

(Snip)
And why are you mentioning a warning? That's not in any ruleset either (other than possible local yokel rules).
(Snip)

Who are you calling a yokel????

NCAA 9.4.2.4 Effect:
"Delayed-dead ball is signalled. The umpire shall issue a warning to the offending individual and notify her coach......."

topper · #4 (**permalink**) Fri May 06, 2011, 10:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You should never take "where the runner ended up on her own" into account (I believe this to be true in all rulesets).

And why are you mentioning a warning? That's not in any ruleset either (other than possible local yokel rules).

I believe (assuming you're really CecilOne and not a hacker) that you already know this. But A) is not correct either. It's not an automatic award.

You've stepped in it now "Big Time". Just be sure you clean your foot off before you put it back in your mouth.

MD Longhorn · #5 (**permalink**) Fri May 06, 2011, 10:23am

OK, OK... I was wrong on the warning. Flat wrong and egregiously wrong.

But let me be the first to say, "That's freaking insane." Why would every team not intentionally obstruct the first girl that hits an apparent double (or more)?

topper · #6 (**permalink**) Fri May 06, 2011, 10:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne

In NCAA, there is a rule that an OBS by the same player after a rounding/returning warning results in an automatic base award. If read literally, it says nothing about where the runner ended up on her own.

Case: after a warning, F3 obstructs R1 rounding 1st.
(A) R1 stops, goes back to 1st.
(B) R1 makes it to 2nd on her own.

In (A), R1 is awarded 2nd, but what about (B)?

9.4.2.4 EFFECT - ...The awards shall be to the base beyond the base she would have reached had obstruction not occurred unless the runners safely advance further on their own, in which case no award is given.

youngump · #7 (**permalink**) Fri May 06, 2011, 10:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

OK, OK... I was wrong on the warning. Flat wrong and egregiously wrong.

But let me be the first to say, "That's freaking insane." Why would every team not intentionally obstruct the first girl that hits an apparent double (or more)?

I don't do NCAA either, but from my casual understanding of the rule, obstruction is penalized much the same as in ASA/NFHS except that when you obstruct on rounding and returning you ALSO get a warning. If you do it again you get ejected. (And possibly from the OP you also get an extra base?)

topper · #8 (**permalink**) Fri May 06, 2011, 10:31am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

OK, OK... I was wrong on the warning. Flat wrong and egregiously wrong.

But let me be the first to say, "That's freaking insane." Why would every team not intentionally obstruct the first girl that hits an apparent double (or more)?

Being wrong is one thing. Being arrogantly ignorant is another.

The effect quoted above answers your question for you "BT".

Dakota · #9 (**permalink**) Fri May 06, 2011, 10:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by topper

Being wrong is one thing. Being arrogantly ignorant is another....

Yeah... it's called being a coach!

MD Longhorn · #10 (**permalink**) Fri May 06, 2011, 10:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by topper

Being wrong is one thing. Being arrogantly ignorant is another.

I believe I ate my crow... this was unnecessary. I admit to ignorant. I don't believe I was being arrogant, although my hacker comment which came from the proliferation of fake posts in recent days might be construed that way. If it did, I'll apologize for that as well.

AtlUmpSteve · #11 (**permalink**) Fri May 06, 2011, 01:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne

In NCAA, there is a rule that an OBS by the same player after a rounding/returning warning results in an automatic base award. If read literally, it says nothing about where the runner ended up on her own.

Case: after a warning, F3 obstructs R1 rounding 1st.
(A) R1 stops, goes back to 1st.
(B) R1 makes it to 2nd on her own.

In (A), R1 is awarded 2nd, but what about (B)?

To answer all:

One first occurrence by a player; treat the same as obstruction in ASA/NFHS, give an official warning (PU recording player number) announced to offending head coach.

One first occurence by ANOTHER player; treat the same as obstruction in ASA/NFHS, give an official warning (PU recording new player number) announced to offending head coach.

On a second (or more) occurrence by any previously warned player; treat the same as obstruction in ASA/NFHS. At the end of the play, award obstructed runner one additional base beyond the base you would have awarded (but not any additional if runner has already overrun protection).

Result of this rule: There is almost NEVER obstruction of this type in NCAA, I can't remember the last time I ever had to even give a warning!! Of course, it "accidentally" happens ALL THE TIME is ASA and NFHS.

MD Longhorn · #12 (**permalink**) Fri May 06, 2011, 01:24pm

Thanks Steve - this is less "freaking insane" than I was led to believe. I inferred (obviously incorrectly) that the "warning" was like other warnings in the book - no penalty on 1st offense, don't do it again. Knowing now that there is the "normal" penalty in ADDITION to a warning, I retract "freaking insane" and again apologize.

Dakota · #13 (**permalink**) Fri May 06, 2011, 02:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Thanks Steve - this is less "freaking insane" than I was led to believe. I inferred (obviously incorrectly) that the "warning" was like other warnings in the book - no penalty on 1st offense, don't do it again. Knowing now that there is the "normal" penalty in ADDITION to a warning, I retract "freaking insane" and again apologize.

No need to keep apologizing. There will always be those looking to pounce for a cheap shot, apology or not.

MD Longhorn · #14 (**permalink**) Fri May 06, 2011, 03:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota

No need to keep apologizing. There will always be those looking to pounce for a cheap shot, apology or not.

Sorry!

Dakota · #15 (**permalink**) Fri May 06, 2011, 04:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

sorry!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
NCAA considers changing IP penalty	KJUmp	Softball	21	Wed Sep 01, 2010 07:23am
Hypothetical NCAA OT penalty situation	bearclause	Football	6	Thu Oct 26, 2006 04:27pm
NCAA PI Penalty Spot	floray	Football	15	Thu Sep 08, 2005 07:33pm
(NCAA) Penalty for Offensive Pass Interference	Ed Hickland	Football	3	Sun Sep 28, 2003 10:49am
TECHNICAL PENALTY NCAA	rburn22281	Basketball	1	Mon Jan 28, 2002 12:22am