Ball four - runner stealing with throw to 2nd

[BEAREF]

Runner on first...3-1 count on the batter...on the pitch the runner is stealing 2nd...pitch is a ball...catcher throws to 2nd attempting to throw out the runner...BU calls runner out (not knowing that the pitch was called a ball)...runner assuming that she is out heads to third base dugout...3rd base coach tells her to stay at third because it was ball four and she's not out. After everything stops the umpires get together to discuss the situation. They place runners at 1st and 3rd.

Seems right to me, but would like a rule or casebook example to back their decision.

Thanks.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by BEAREF

Runner on first...3-1 count on the batter...on the pitch the runner is stealing 2nd...pitch is a ball...catcher throws to 2nd attempting to throw out the runner...BU calls runner out (not knowing that the pitch was called a ball)...runner assuming that she is out heads to third base dugout...3rd base coach tells her to stay at third because it was ball four and she's not out. After everything stops the umpires get together to discuss the situation. They place runners at 1st and 3rd.

Seems right to me, but would like a rule or casebook example to back their decision.

Thanks.

Entitled to 2nd, can't be out getting there. Placing at 3rd does not make sense if the umpire error caused the defense not to play on her going toward 3rd.
Another case of whether a team is at fault for not knowing the situation or the umpire/play placed them in jeopardy.

If the tag was after 2nd, different problem.

[BretMan]

Well, you have rule 10 that directs umpires to rectify a reversed or delayed call. The "fix" is to place runners where they likely would have been had the call not been reversed.

I'm not sure why they placed the runner on third base. It sounds like she should have been placed back safely at second. Calling her out likely caused the defense to quit playing on her as she walked toward the dugout. I really doubt that I would let that "advance" stand. Put her right back on second- exactly where she would have been if she hadn't been mistakedly called out in the first place.

While there is a rule that supports fixing the call, the solution isn't set in stone. It's entirely at the umpire's judgment to decide where to place the runners. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that they will use good judgment when doing that!

[CecilOne]

Of course, both of us are basing comments on knowing that "runner assuming that she is out heads to third base dugout"

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Of course, both of us are basing comments on knowing that "runner assuming that she is out heads to third base dugout"

In other words...basing our comments on the situation precisely as it was described to us!

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by BretMan

In other words...basing our comments on the situation precisely as it was described to us!

Perhaps Cecil meant the umpires wouldn't necessarily know WHY the runner advanced toward 3rd, only that she made it there.

Even without that comment, however, the BU did call her out which placed the defense in jeopardy (they quit playing on her). Just as the BU did not know the pitch was a ball, the infielders may not have known, either. But they did know the runner was declared OUT.