Electronic ASA Rulebook.

[kellerumps]

We just found an electronic version of the NCAA rulebook in .PDF format.

Does anyone know where we can find a Electronic Version of the ASA rulebook???????

Thanks

Kellerumps

[greymule]

I doubt that you'll find one. ASA is notorious for not making its book available except for sale. Can't blame them, really.

However, I'm surprised that no one has yet simply typed out–or scanned—the book and scattered it to the winds on the web.

[Steve M]

I think it was the 99 book that somebody copied & put online. ASA made the site remove it.

If you get the umpire mechanics cd from epicsoftware.com, one of the extras that is included is a copy of the NCAA book. Having that on my pc has been helpful.

Steve M

[Dakota]

ASA used to sell a CD-ROM (made by TASO, I believe) with the 2001 rules on it. Now, though, they are only selling a CD-ROM with umpire mechanics.

I don't understand ASA's overall behavior here. Certainly, they can decide how they want to distribute their rule books, but I don't know too many umpires who would have ONLY an electronic copy of the book even if one was available. In fact, I don't know too many umpires or coaches who actually decide the BUY the ASA book - it comes with the registration - so ASA is getting their money either way.

I'd like to see a fully linked HTML version of the rule book - one that allows word and phrase searching, as well as hot links in the index, table of contents, POEs, etc. I don't necessarily think it is helpful to have the rules on-line, but offering an electronic version for sale would be helpful.

[Elaine "Lady Blue"]

You know Dakota, I don't know why ASA protects it's books like it does, maybe Mr. ASA (Rowe) knows. I've seen NSA and USSSA rule books for sale here in sporting goods stores. I think if ASA offered it's books for sale on line and with some major catalog folks like Softball Sales, they'd be surprised how well they would sell. After all, what's the harm with more players, coaches and fans knowing the real rules instead of urban legend ones? ASA umps will still be the interpreters on the field.
What do y'all think? Feedback, please.
(And Mike, you know I'm not picking on you when I call you Mr. ASA, you just know more about ASA than the rest of us do)

[greymule]

The casebook is quite useful, too. However, as far as I know, in our association I'm the only ump who owns one.

As for the rule book, if it didn't come with the registration, I suspect most guys wouldn't buy one.

Often we see rules and casebook plays posted verbatim on this site. I wonder whether we're violating some copyright by doing that.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by greymule
Often we see rules and casebook plays posted verbatim on this site. I wonder whether we're violating some copyright by doing that.

Probably not. The quoting of a small portion of a copyrighted work for commentary or review purposes is generally considered "fair use" and not a copyright violation. As with all things legal, it is impossible to get a clear black and white definition of "fair use," but I think we (or more specifically, the web site owners) are well within the bounds of "fair use."

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Elaine "Lady Blue"
After all, what's the harm with more players, coaches and fans knowing the real rules instead of urban legend ones? ASA umps will still be the interpreters on the field.
What do y'all think? Feedback, please.

Originally posted by greymule
As for the rule book, if it didn't come with the registration, I suspect most guys wouldn't buy one.

LB, I would welcome more educated fans, players, and coaches. On the other hand, those guys who never even put a crease in their new rule books would probably just as soon things stayed they way they are.

[Elaine "Lady Blue"]

I don't understand----you mean when you guys pay your ASA yearly fee (and we pay an association fee, too) that your UIC doesn't pass out rule books free???? We have ALWAYS gotten ours when they are delivered to the Deputy UICs or if you register and pay at the UIC clinic, he gives you one then. They aren't supposed to cost extra. Or are you saying they come with registration?
Don't all of you take the annual test? We used to take ours home, but some never brought it back. Now we have a meeting where we all take the test. Then everyone must read and answer a question (going in test order) out loud to the group. We then critique, discuss and sometimes refer some back to OK City to Merle for better clarification.
However, it's obvious some pay no attention at the UIC clinc nor do they ever look at the new rules changes nor do they ever crack the book open. These types probably throw it in the back seat floor board. I also suspect these are the same guys that don't wear caps under their face masks, their shoes never see shoe polish and their jackets are old and worn out OR unofficial (no ASA) one they bought at Walmart. I hate for these type umps to officiate at one of my daughter's games.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Elaine "Lady Blue"
I don't understand----you mean when you guys pay your ASA yearly fee (and we pay an association fee, too) that your UIC doesn't pass out rule books free????

Well, not free, exactly.

We have ALWAYS gotten ours when they are delivered to the Deputy UICs or if you register and pay at the UIC clinic, he gives you one then. They aren't supposed to cost extra. Or are you saying they come with registration?

Yes, the same as where you are. When we pay our fees and attend the clinic, we get a book. We also get a new bat ring every year.

Don't all of you take the annual test?

No. The only requirement is attendance at a rules clinic. The Metro St. Paul association requires a test. State-wide, though, none is required.

However, it's obvious some pay no attention at the UIC clinc nor do they ever look at the new rules changes nor do they ever crack the book open.

Yeah, there are those who do the minimum to get by everywhere, I suppose.

These types probably throw it in the back seat floor board. I also suspect these are the same guys that don't wear caps under their face masks, their shoes never see shoe polish and their jackets are old and worn out OR unofficial (no ASA) one they bought at Walmart. I hate for these type umps to officiate at one of my daughter's games.

Ditto.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Elaine "Lady Blue"
You know Dakota, I don't know why ASA protects it's books like it does, maybe Mr. ASA (Rowe) knows. I've seen NSA and USSSA rule books for sale here in sporting goods stores. I think if ASA offered it's books for sale on line and with some major catalog folks like Softball Sales, they'd be surprised how well they would sell. After all, what's the harm with more players, coaches and fans knowing the real rules instead of urban legend ones? ASA umps will still be the interpreters on the field.
What do y'all think? Feedback, please.
(And Mike, you know I'm not picking on you when I call you Mr. ASA, you just know more about ASA than the rest of us do)

I answered this question in July and shame on you veterans for forgeting.

Though the advertisement is minimal, ASA apparently has standing contracts with companies which advertise in the ASA rule book.

I would also suspect that they just don't want to give away the book. The extras which they may sell are probably a plus to the financial statement though I would expect it to not be a big number.

But, it is their business and it is their perogative to operate it as such. Remember, every time some PO'd parent or coach doesn't get their way and knows a lawyer, ASA ends up in court and unfortunately, that's just the way it is in our "society".

To cover what will obviously be someone's next statement, "but their supposedly a non-profit organization!" Yeah, so was Blue Cross and Blue Shield and you never saw them giving anything away. Don't confuse non-profit with non-business, it isn't the same.

And, as to the argument that it would create more informed players and coaches, I would have to disagree. Those who wish to learn, will learn without grieving about $10. Those who just want a free quick reference document can be dangerous to the game, because everyone on this board familiar with any rule book knows many of the rules in the book are dependent upon other sections.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
And, as to the argument that it would create more informed players and coaches, I would have to disagree. Those who wish to learn, will learn without grieving about $10. Those who just want a free quick reference document can be dangerous to the game, because everyone on this board familiar with any rule book knows many of the rules in the book are dependent upon other sections.

Well, I agree with that, and I don't think anyone was suggesting free - just more available through more channels.

In fact, I'd guess if they made a CD-ROM version, it would be a bit more expensive than the regular paperback version. I'd pay a little extra just to make looking up rules, POEs, case plays, etc., easier.

It's not that people don't want to pay (well, there are some of those, for sure) it's that they don't go to the effort to track down the one person in their state who sells them.

If any company makes it easier for their potential customers to buy their product, they will sell more. Right now, the ASA rule book is difficult to get - only available through private individuals (as opposed to from bookstores or from ASA's own online sales catalog) or by registering as a team, coach, umpire, etc.

[greymule]

Last year, our association began requiring that everyone take the test annually. Some local ump was sued over an injury during a game, and the guy's lawyer scored big points in court on the matter of testing. Q: "How long have you been umpiring?" A: "Twenty-six years." Q: "When did you last take an umpire's test?" A: "Uh, 26 years ago."

Of course, he might have spent the past 26 years conscientiously studying the rules and the casebook. He might have become a respected authority on the rules, but his answer sounded bad in court and helped the player win some damages.

Speaking of putting the ASA book on line, what the world really needs is an annotated rule book, with the ambiguous wordings clarified and the grammar and punctuation cleaned up. (There are literally hundreds of flaws, large and small.)

In the foul tip section alone, "not over the batter's head" has defied definite interpetation here for months, and "directly to the hand or glove" doesn't mean what it seems to imply, that the ball is immediately caught in the hand or glove. Instead, it allows that a ball can go directly from the bat to the hand/glove and then ricochet off the hand/glove to the chest protector and then back into the hand/glove for a catch. But how many people—coaches, fans, even umpires—will catch that meaning?

[Elaine "Lady Blue"]

You'll have to forgive me if I missed the July post as that was during either a recovery period or a surgical period as I don't remember it. I still think ASA should sell the rule book to whom ever wants it and charge $15.00 or so. The folks that really want it won't balk at $15.00.

[kellerumps]

What we thought would be a simple question, has turned into a great and heated debate.

Now then, the NCAA charges a nominal fee ($10 I think) for their rulebook however some conferences give them away to their "Staff" Umpires. The other day, I happened to find a PDF version of this rulebook and thought that it was a great idea.

I don't pretend to know what our registration fee covers. I do think however, that putting it out in a free electronic format would not hurt them financially. They could even include the ads. But like it was stated in another post, it is their buisiness to run as they see fit.

Do I(we) agree with everything ASA does, absolutely not. Is this a good idea, yes I think so. So......If anyone has some pull with ASA corporate, then this might be an idea to share. I know I am going to say something when I meet with our State Commish, UIC, President in Jan.

Kellerumps