ASA Unreported Sub

[vcblue]

Here is a play I had at the 18A USA National.

2 outs. R1 at 2nd. 2-2 count on batter when she hits a line drive to RT Field. Relay to F4 who throws to F2 to get R1 out at home. After D leaves field offensive coach notifies PU that F1 was an unreported sub. You make the call.

[DTQ_Blue]

I'll stick my neck out w/o reading the book. In ASA there must be a protest by the offended team, which there was, but in this case it was made too late to be actionable. UR sub F1 is entered on lineup card as a substitute and play on.

I looked over all the rulebooks for the organizations I work for a few weeks ago and noticed that UR sub situations differ dramatically between ASA, PONY, NSA and Fed.

I'm thinking of making up a cheat sheet to take on the field with me so I make sure I rule correctly if ever in that spot.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by vcblue

Here is a play I had at the 18A USA National.

2 outs. R1 at 2nd. 2-2 count on batter when she hits a line drive to RT Field. Relay to F4 who throws to F2 to get R1 out at home. After D leaves field offensive coach notifies PU that F1 was an unreported sub. You make the call.

There is no penalty even if the coach brings it to the attention of the umpire prior to the infielders leaving fair territory.

[DeputyUICHousto]

You would now have a legal substitute. Once the defense leaves the field of play its over.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

You would now have a legal substitute. Once the defense leaves the field of play its over.

Since the unreported sub is a defensive player, the only way there is any penalty is if the defensive player makes a play, then is protested before the next pitch.

This player did not make a play, so the defense having left the field is a moot point. It's not a case of "the defense left the field so it's too late to protest". It's a case of "you protested, but there is no penalty to apply".

[rwest]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

There is no penalty even if the coach brings it to the attention of the umpire prior to the infielders leaving fair territory.

Suppose the batter struck out? What would be your ruling if they appealed before the defense left the field?

[Andy]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Since the unreported sub is a defensive player, the only way there is any penalty is if the defensive player makes a play, then is protested before the next pitch.

This player did not make a play, so the defense having left the field is a moot point. It's not a case of "the defense left the field so it's too late to protest". It's a case of "you protested, but there is no penalty to apply".

It seems to me I have been told that making the pitch is considered a play. Am I wrong?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Andy

It seems to me I have been told that making the pitch is considered a play. Am I wrong?

By ASA's definition, a pitch is not a play.

[vcblue]

ASA Definition a pitch is not part of the play. This is what the coach was arguing.

Once one pitch is thrown the UR Sub is know in the game.

Because the UR Sub was not part of the play we have nothing.

BTW the PU stated to the UIC (Jim Craig) he knew the coach did not report the sub.

I asked why he didn't use some preventive umpiring and ask the coach if he had anything to tell him.

PU said, "where do you draw the line". The UIC said (for ASA) never.