Double First Base Appeal

[PaREF]

A situation came up last night in a co-ed league game in which I was playing that I had not seen before. A slow ground ball back to the pitcher who fielded it and threw to first. The BR was ruled safe in a close play (no argument about him beating the throw).

After the ball was returned to the pitcher he said to the umpire that he would like to appeal the runner interfering with the first base(wo)man by stepping on the white part of first base instead of the orange part. The umpire said that it was too late for an appeal since the runner had already returned to first base.

The pitcher said that since he had not begun pitching to the next batter that he should be able to make an appeal but the umpire said that particular appeal play had to be made prior to the runner returning to first base.

I did a little ASA umpiring about 10 years ago but nowhere that used a double first base. I've watched many high school and college games where it is used but I've never seen an appeal of the runner not touching the orange base. Could someone help me out and tell me if the umpire was correct in his ruling?

I really don't know which base the runner touched, but let's just say for the sake of argument that his foot came down on the white base. Could he be called out on whatever is a proper appeal?

[PSUchem]

The ump had it completely right. The runner can be out for NOT touching the orange bag (or, "contrasting colored" bag) if properly appealed. The appeal must be made before the batter-runner returns to 1B.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by PSUchem

The ump had it completely right. The runner can be out for only touching the orange bag (or, "contrasting colored" bag) if properly appealed. The appeal must be made before the batter-runner returns to 1B.

PSU of course means the runner can be out for touching the white bag, since they are supposed to touch the contrasting bag.
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[PSUchem]

Thanks youngump. Of course, that's what I meant. I'll edit the original.

[txump81]

If the BR touches the white portion of the double base, it is treated as if the the BR missed the base. That is if there is a play.

[SergioJ]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

And the BR has to interfere with the play.

Are you saying that defense cannot properly appeal BR touching white bag only unless they also interfered with the play?

Serg

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by PaREF

A situation came up last night in a co-ed league game in which I was playing that I had not seen before. A slow ground ball back to the pitcher who fielded it and threw to first. The BR was ruled safe in a close play (no argument about him beating the throw).

After the ball was returned to the pitcher he said to the umpire that he would like to appeal the runner interfering with the first base(wo)man by stepping on the white part of first base instead of the orange part. The umpire said that it was too late for an appeal since the runner had already returned to first base.

The pitcher said that since he had not begun pitching to the next batter that he should be able to make an appeal but the umpire said that particular appeal play had to be made prior to the runner returning to first base.

I did a little ASA umpiring about 10 years ago but nowhere that used a double first base. I've watched many high school and college games where it is used but I've never seen an appeal of the runner not touching the orange base. Could someone help me out and tell me if the umpire was correct in his ruling?

I really don't know which base the runner touched, but let's just say for the sake of argument that his foot came down on the white base. Could he be called out on whatever is a proper appeal?

PaRef - everyone has answered your question correctly about the live ball appeal on this particular play. Just for clarification, you have never seen a NCAA college game where the double first base is in use. And if the "Pa" in your name indicates the state in which you live, you didn't see the double first base at the PIAA championships, because the games take place on a college field.

[txump81]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

This sounds like a great answer to a different thread. We're not talking interference here - we're talking missed base appeal.

Exactly. There is no requirement for interference. Just that a play is being made. In LL, which follows OBR very closely see 7.15.

[CecilOne]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne
And the BR has to interfere with the play.

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

This sounds like a great answer to a different thread. We're not talking interference here - we're talking missed base appeal.

Absolutely correct Mike, I violated my rule about not posting until after coffee #2. I deleted my post.

And I agree with all the too-late-for-appeal responses.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by txump81

Exactly. There is no requirement for interference. Just that a play is being made. In LL, which follows OBR very closely see 7.15.

What's OBR have to do with it? There's no double first base in OBR.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by txump81

Exactly. There is no requirement for interference. Just that a play is being made. In LL, which follows OBR very closely see 7.15.

LL Softball follows OBR baseball?

Really?

(Not to mention that I've never seen an OBR baseball game with the double base).

[BretMan]

They follow the same process for missed first base appeals. Obviously not the same for use of a double first base.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne
And the BR has to interfere with the play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder
This sounds like a great answer to a different thread. We're not talking interference here - we're talking missed base appeal.

Originally Posted by CecilOne
Absolutely correct Mike, I violated my rule about not posting until after coffee #2. I deleted my post.

And I agree with all the too-late-for-appeal responses.

Although now that I re-read the OP, I see why I said that.
It says "he would like to appeal the runner interfering with the first base(wo)man by stepping on the white part of first base instead of the orange part"

[celebur]

Originally Posted by PaREF

After the ball was returned to the pitcher he said to the umpire that he would like to appeal the runner interfering with the first base(wo)man by stepping on the white part of first base instead of the orange part. The umpire said that it was too late for an appeal since the runner had already returned to first base.

Just to clarify:

1) The only logical appeal here would be an appeal for missing the base, and if the runner touched only the white portion (thus entirely missing the orange portion) when a play is being made, then yes, s/he missed the base and may be put out on appeal. But the defense would need to appeal before the runner returned because once s/he has returned, the violation has been corrected and is no longer appealable.

2) Interference is an entirely different animal and is NOT appealable. If the umpire saw interference, he would have ruled it immediately, killed the play, and declared the BR out. But note that simply stepping on the white portion is not automatically interference. As described, there was no interference on this play.