Florida head coach accuses umpires of cheating his team at WCWS

[MD Longhorn]

Hey ... "Not gaining an advantage" people...

If she's not gaining an advantage by doing it, why doesn't she simply stop?

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Hey ... "Not gaining an advantage" people...

If she's not gaining an advantage by doing it, why doesn't she simply stop?

Because thats the way she pitches 'more gooder'.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Wow. A record. Only 6 posts to my ignore button.

That long, huh?

BTW, NC#, the tie does go to the runner.

[JefferMC]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

BTW, NC#, the tie does go to the runner.

So... what you're saying is that it's a myth that the tie goes to the runner is a myth.

Which I happen to agree with. The book states

Originally Posted by ASA Rule 8.7.C

When, on a force play, a fielder contacts the base while holding the ball, or tags the runner before the runner reaches the base.

If the ball and the runner get there at the same time, a tie, then fielder did not contact the base before the runner, the runner is safe, the myth list not withstanding.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

So... what you're saying is that it's a myth that the tie goes to the runner is a myth.

Which I happen to agree with. The book states



If the ball and the runner get there at the same time, a tie, then fielder did not contact the base before the runner, the runner is safe, the myth list not withstanding.

No such damn thing as a tie! If you thought it was a tie, you weren't looking close enough.

[vcblue]

Originally Posted by FullCount

Heard some of that in the AZ/Tenn game but didn't hear it in the Fla game. I was working while listening and trying to watch some. Most of what I heard about not calling th IP unless there was an advantage came in the first 2 innings but still came back to it later in the game. Late in the last inning they said that there were two three-run HRs but that the real story in the game was the IP. Huh?

Michelle always says it is a DISadvantage to leap because you lose power.
FullCount-It is not ball speed but batter reaction time. The Florida Pitcher was subtracting at least a foot or two from the batters' time to see the ball when she leaped.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

So... what you're saying is that it's a myth that the tie goes to the runner is a myth.

Which I happen to agree with. The book states



If the ball and the runner get there at the same time, a tie, then fielder did not contact the base before the runner, the runner is safe, the myth list not withstanding.

There is no such thing as two independent events occurring at the same precise moment... there is no tie.

PS - you can find exactly the reverse wording elsewhere in the book... even the book assumes there is no such thing as a tie.

[JefferMC]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

There is no such thing as two independent events occurring at the same precise moment... there is no tie.

Within the limits of human perception, yes there are. And since we're talking about a human's perception (although quite a few coaches might argue with that), ties will happen. And I would argue that you cannot prove that two independant events did NOT occur at the exact same time.

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

PS - you can find exactly the reverse wording elsewhere in the book... even the book assumes there is no such thing as a tie.

The closest I could find was in the rule supplement (1.L in the book I have open) dealing with the appeal when the runner passed first base "before the throw arrives" without touching. I can accept that the offense loses the benefit of winning the tie if they fail to touch the base.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

Within the limits of human perception, yes there are. And since we're talking about a human's perception (although quite a few coaches might argue with that), ties will happen. And I would argue that you cannot prove that two independant events did NOT occur at the exact same time.

The closest I could find was in the rule supplement (1.L in the book I have open) dealing with the appeal when the runner passed first base "before the throw arrives" without touching. I can accept that the offense loses the benefit of winning the tie if they fail to touch the base.

You could always say the following:

"Coach, how many races have you ever seen that resulted in a 'tie?' None. Slow it down enough, watch it carefully, and someone will ALWAYS get there first. And that's exactly what I did. "

[greymule]

Keep in mind that the touch of the base and the gloving of the ball, however we might try to define them, are not instantaneous events, though we treat them as such in practice. They do not occur at infinitesimally small intervals of time.

The two events certainly can occur at intervals far too short for the human eye and mind to discern. Therefore, we can have an apparent tie.

[3afan]

Originally Posted by pop300ln

what about the other pitcher from UCLA? did she not fly? fair for one is fair for the other. if both feet are off the ground it is an IP BY THE RULE. a 1/2 in or 3 inches u guys are rule crazy. MAKE THE CALL or use common sense.

only problem with that is you can't see 1/2 inch of the ground at game speeb - slo mo yes

[ronald]

i can not fathom why people think that the ball hitting the 1b mitt and the runner's foot touching the bag could not happen at the same exact time.

if one car leaves 10 minutes from point x and goes 20mph and the second car leaves point x and goes 30mph, then at some point in time they are going to be tied even if it is for 10 to the millionth second. seems reasonable.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ronald

i can not fathom why people think that the ball hitting the 1b mitt and the runner's foot touching the bag could not happen at the same exact time.

if one car leaves 10 minutes from point x and goes 20mph and the second car leaves point x and goes 30mph, then at some point in time they are going to be tied even if it is for 10 to the millionth second. seems reasonable.

Your example is not two unrelated events - it's two related events. Also, the touching of the bag may be an instantaeous clockable event - but catching a ball isn't. At what precise instant do you consider it caught? There is a finite amount of time between where the ball enters the glove and hits the glove and another finite amount of time before the ball's motion is stopped.

Why can you not fathom it. At BEST, one can say the two unrelated events happened so close together that the human eye cannot discern the difference. That doesn't mean one didn't happen before the other.

Point is, really - that no matter which POV you take, you're supported AND refuted by the rulebook. Tie does NOT go to the runner ... OR to the fielder.

[FullCount]

Originally Posted by vcblue

Michelle always says it is a DISadvantage to leap because you lose power.
FullCount-It is not ball speed but batter reaction time. The Florida Pitcher was subtracting at least a foot or two from the batters' time to see the ball when she leaped.

Yeah I understand about reaction time- hence my note about being a few feet closer to the batter. I also heard one of the heads say several times that leaping is a disadvantage but I also know that there are several schools of pitching styles that firmly believe you gain speed by leaping. Regardless of your belief, the pitchers leap because they think it does gain them an advantage. If it didn't they wouldn't do it. I kept waiting yesterday to hear someone to make that very point. I'm still waiting.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by FullCount

Yeah I understand about reaction time- hence my note about being a few feet closer to the batter. I also heard one of the heads say several times that leaping is a disadvantage but I also know that there are several schools of pitching styles that firmly believe you gain speed by leaping. Regardless of your belief, the pitchers leap because they think it does gain them an advantage. If it didn't they wouldn't do it. I kept waiting yesterday to hear someone to make that very point. I'm still waiting.

Earlier tonight they were saying the pitcher was NOT getting an advantage by leaping because the foot is just an inch or so off the ground.

These THs are really all over the place on the issue, but then again, they really have no idea of what they are talking about.