Major brain fart because I am an old fart.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

USSSA FastPitch, Girls' 12U:

Two outs, R1 on 1B, and there are two strikes on the B4. B4 swings and misses for strike three and F2 drops the pitch. R1 starts running for 2B, B4 stands in the batter's box for a moment, and in the moment that I signaled the swinging strike I said to myself that the batter is out because of R1 on 1B, I then called B4 out. End of inning.

If I had been called on my brain fart, would I have had any remedy; I would like comments per NFHS, NCAA, ASA, and USSSA.

Thank you in advance.

MTD, Sr.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

USSSA FastPitch, Girls' 12U:

Two outs, R1 on 1B, and there are two strikes on the B4. B4 swings and misses for strike three and F2 drops the pitch. R1 starts running for 2B, B4 stands in the batter's box for a moment, and in the moment I call strike three and the batter is out. End of inning.

If I had been called on my brain fart, would I have had any remedy; I would like comments per NFHS, NCAA, ASA, and USSSA.

Thank you in advance.

MTD, Sr.

Yah.

STOP calling USSSA.....

STOP calling the batter out. EVER....

BY RULE..she isnt out... so you would have to figure out how to correct the brain fart

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

Yah.

STOP calling USSSA.....

STOP calling the batter out. EVER....

BY RULE..she isnt out... so you would have to figure out how to correct the brain fart

ASA is losing ground to USSSA in the midwest, so that may be his only option at umpiring softball.

Agreed with your other points.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Two the first two posters after my OP, I KNOW I made a mistake in calling the batter out when she wasn't out. I KNOW I had a brain fart; because I KNOW that the batter has not struck out in this situation. BUT, my OP asked for an intelligent discussion of HOW to remedy my brain fart if the offensive Head Coach had challenged my mistake. I did NOT ask for half a$$ comments about USSSA. I asked how this situation would be handled under NFHS, NCAA, ASA, and USSSA rules because I umpire under NFHS, ASA, and USSSA rules and would also like to know how it would be handled under NCAA rules.

By the way, most of the girls' fastpitch teams in Ohio play both ASA and USSSA at the same time during the summer. It is not uncommon to umpire an ASA tournament one weekend and an USSSA tournament the next weekend and see many of the same teams.

MTD, Sr.

P.S.: When I told MTD, Jr. (who umpires NFHS baseball, and ASA and USSSA with me) and Andy (my yournger son), of my miscue the first words out of their mouths was (besides ROFLTheirAO) was to say that I truely becomeing a bald old gezzer.

[TwoBits]

Speaking NFHS, try 10-2-3m about the duties of a plate umpire:

[A plate umpire may] rectify any situation in which an umpire's decision that was reversed has placed either team in jeopardy.

From that point, its your judgment whether your mistake kept the batter-runner from advancing to first. Then prepare for the storm because there's going to be at least one coach upset with your mistake.

I'm sure USSSA has a similar rule since NFHS and USSSA are very similar, but I don't have my USSSA book nearby. Not sure about ASA or NCAA since I don't do either one.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Two the first two posters after my OP, I KNOW I made a mistake in calling the batter out when she wasn't out. I KNOW I had a brain fart; because I KNOW that the batter has not struck out in this situation. BUT, my OP asked for an intelligent discussion of HOW to remedy my brain fart if the offensive Head Coach had challenged my mistake. I did NOT ask for half a$$ comments about USSSA. I asked how this situation would be handled under NFHS, NCAA, ASA, and USSSA rules because I umpire under NFHS, ASA, and USSSA rules and would also like to know how it would be handled under NCAA rules.

By the way, most of the girls' fastpitch teams in Ohio play both ASA and USSSA at the same time during the summer. It is not uncommon to umpire an ASA tournament one weekend and an USSSA tournament the next weekend and see many of the same teams.

MTD, Sr.

P.S.: When I told MTD, Jr. (who umpires NFHS baseball, and ASA and USSSA with me) and Andy (my yournger son), of my miscue the first words out of their mouths was (besides ROFLTheirAO) was to say that I truely becomeing a bald old gezzer.

Don't be too hard on yourself, this blew up on somebody in an MLB game last year on a ball that appeared to be caught. They called the runner safe saying the home plate umpire hadn't called him out even though the defense sure seemed to think so as they ran off the field. I can't imagine letting the runner have first unless the ball was well clear of the catcher or it was the kind of youth game where everybody was making it on the third strike.
________
Vaporizers

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

USSSA FastPitch, Girls' 12U:

Two outs, R1 on 1B, and there are two strikes on the B4. B4 swings and misses for strike three and F2 drops the pitch. R1 starts running for 2B, B4 stands in the batter's box for a moment, and in the moment that I signaled the swinging strike I said to myself that the batter is out because of R1 on 1B, I then called B4 out. End of inning.

If I had been called on my brain fart, would I have had any remedy; I would like comments per NFHS, NCAA, ASA, and USSSA.

Thank you in advance.

MTD, Sr.

As you say, in every case, you would need to be called on it by the offensive coach. And, by rule, the batter is not out; and your calling the batter out when the batter is not out took away any possibility of the batter advancing safely.

Once that happens, you invoke the appropriate rule in every rule set that says when an umpires decision is reversed (as this must), and that reversal puts a team in jeopardy (as this did) then the plate umpire determines what the remedy is.

You have set your self up for an arguement no matter how you then rule, but,
1) Offense was in jeopardy, because you took away the opportunity to be safe.
2) Defense was also in jeopardy, in that you took away the opportunity to get the out.

The deciding factor in my mind is that the BR is not out; and with both being disadvantaged, the BR is still not out, and how can you make BR out when not put out. As bad as it gets, you must award BR 1st, R1 stops on 2nd, and defense still needs to get out 3.

[MD Longhorn]

I think you're better off basing this decision on everything else that happened... did the ball get AWAY - how far away. OTOH, if this ball was OBVIOUSLY not caught, then I think the batter-runner (and coaches) bear some responsibility in knowing she's not out. You couldn't possibly be saying the ball was caught. Just like when a BR runs on a dropped 3rd when she can't advance, the defense bears responsibility for knowing BR is already out.

I don't call much U-Trip. Is PU REQUIRED in U-Trip to call an out in this sitch (if she's out, that is)? I generally just say strike three, regardless of where runners are or how many outs.

[charliej47]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I think you're better off basing this decision on everything else that happened... did the ball get AWAY - how far away. OTOH, if this ball was OBVIOUSLY not caught, then I think the batter-runner (and coaches) bear some responsibility in knowing she's not out. You couldn't possibly be saying the ball was caught. Just like when a BR runs on a dropped 3rd when she can't advance, the defense bears responsibility for knowing BR is already out.

I don't call much U-Trip. Is PU REQUIRED in U-Trip to call an out in this sitch (if she's out, that is)? I generally just say strike three, regardless of where runners are or how many outs.

This was discussed on another board and the decision was that in this instance the umpire can not unring the bell.