illegal pitch or not

[drwells1]

O.K. guys here is the situation. I had already finished my games for the night and was watching an adult slow pitch game with stealing( after the ball reaches the plate). The pitcher was on the rubber and started her pitch and stumbled. She stopped her pitch and reset herself to do it again. At this time the plate umpire calls illegal pitch and moves the runner on first to second. I have never done this and never seen this done. I approached him (after the game) and asked him what was up with the call. He said that our association director told him in a previous game to start calling that way. We have no association rules about this Just wondering if this is the correct way to call any stop in motion by the pitcher?

[rwest]

Originally Posted by drwells1

O.K. guys here is the situation. I had already finished my games for the night and was watching an adult slow pitch game with stealing( after the ball reaches the plate). The pitcher was on the rubber and started her pitch and stumbled. She stopped her pitch and reset herself to do it again. At this time the plate umpire calls illegal pitch and moves the runner on first to second. I have never done this and never seen this done. I approached him (after the game) and asked him what was up with the call. He said that our association director told him in a previous game to start calling that way. We have no association rules about this Just wondering if this is the correct way to call any stop in motion by the pitcher?

Once they start their motion to pitch they must deliver the ball. They can't stop their delivery or pause. However, in slow pitch you don't advance the runners like we do in Fast Pitch.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by drwells1

O.K. guys here is the situation. I had already finished my games for the night and was watching an adult slow pitch game with stealing( after the ball reaches the plate). The pitcher was on the rubber and started her pitch and stumbled. She stopped her pitch and reset herself to do it again. At this time the plate umpire calls illegal pitch and moves the runner on first to second. I have never done this and never seen this done. I approached him (after the game) and asked him what was up with the call. He said that our association director told him in a previous game to start calling that way. We have no association rules about this Just wondering if this is the correct way to call any stop in motion by the pitcher?

Speaking ASA...

If, in the umpire's judgment, the pitcher was beginning their motion to pitch, the pitcher must immediately deliver the ball. This is simply an illegal pitch and a delayed dead ball. Batter can still swing at the pitch, and doing so will nullify the illegal pitch.

Oops... rwest beat me to it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by drwells1

O.K. guys here is the situation. I had already finished my games for the night and was watching an adult slow pitch game with stealing( after the ball reaches the plate).

Hijack notice!!

drwells, not pointing at you, just a generalization of what I have encountered at many different levels and sites.

Why do people seem compelled to make the statement about when a runner can steal in SP?

Don't know how many times I've heard, "when can he steal", or "oh, they can leave when the ball reaches the plate now."

Folks, nothing new here as there has been no change. The runners in SP softball have been allowed to leave the base once the ball reaches the plate since long before stealing was added to the game.

We now return you to your regular programing. Thank you

[drwells1]

Irish, I have been doing this for a while, and until the rule was changed a few years back, the runner could not leave the base until the ball was hit. I am not trying to be confrontational but if you are saying that the runner could always leave the bag once the ball reached the plate, I would like some clarification as to why it has not been used before the rule was changed.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by drwells1

Irish, I have been doing this for a while, and until the rule was changed a few years back, the runner could not leave the base until the ball was hit. I am not trying to be confrontational but if you are saying that the runner could always leave the bag once the ball reached the plate, I would like some clarification as to why it has not been used before the rule was changed.

The rule (8-7-R) has always been that the runner could not leave their base until the pitched ball is batted, reaches home plate or touches the ground. The only change that was made was that the runner could actually advance.

So before, the runner could take their foot off the bag when the ball reached the plate, but had to return if the ball wasn't hit.

[drwells1]

leaving the base and stealing are 2 different things and I wrote stealing. That is where I was confused to what Irish posted.

[celebur]

Originally Posted by drwells1

Irish, I have been doing this for a while, and until the rule was changed a few years back, the runner could not leave the base until the ball was hit. I am not trying to be confrontational but if you are saying that the runner could always leave the bag once the ball reached the plate, I would like some clarification as to why it has not been used before the rule was changed.

Note that leagues routinely override the official rule by not allowing runners to leave base until the ball is hit. This house rule is so common that players think it's the official rule, but it's not. The official rule requires runners to remain on base until the pitched ball hits the ground, reaches home plate, or is batted. This is the rule regardless of whether or not stealing is allowed. It has been this way a long time and was not changed a few years back (though that local league may well have changed their rule a few years back).

Mike was simply ranting and even pointed that out with a hijack alert.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by drwells1

Irish, I have been doing this for a while, and until the rule was changed a few years back, the runner could not leave the base until the ball was hit. I am not trying to be confrontational but if you are saying that the runner could always leave the bag once the ball reached the plate, I would like some clarification as to why it has not been used before the rule was changed.

For what it is worth, I think you are both (partially) right. I could swear I remember a mid to late 90's rule change 8.7-R from Runner is out when "fails to keep contact with the base to which they are entitled until a pitched ball is batted" to the current "fails to keep contact with the base to which they are entitled until a pitched ball is batted, touches the ground, or reaches home plate."

The earliest rule book I kept is 1999, and it has the latter language, well before stealing was first introduced to ASA slow pitch in 2004. So, it changed before stealing, but there has been a change, according to my memory.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

For what it is worth, I think you are both (partially) right. I could swear I remember a mid to late 90's rule change 8.7-R from Runner is out when "fails to keep contact with the base to which they are entitled until a pitched ball is batted" to the current "fails to keep contact with the base to which they are entitled until a pitched ball is batted, touches the ground, or reaches home plate."

The earliest rule book I kept is 1999, and it has the latter language, well before stealing was first introduced to ASA slow pitch in 2004. So, it changed before stealing, but there has been a change, according to my memory.

It must've been changed before 1993, as I recall the current wording even back then.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by drwells1

... the runner could not leave the base until the ball was hit.

So, BBS (Back Before Stealing) if the pitch was swung at and missed and the runner than left the base immediately after the swing, you would call the runner out?

I don't think so, the runner just had to return to his/her base because BBS, the ball was dead. Right?

[IRISHMAFIA]

1936 Official Softball Rules

Rule 27 WHEN BASERUNNERS ARE OUT
Sec 12: Must Hold Base Until Pitched Ball Reaches Batsman. If he leaves or fails to keep contact with the base which is entitled to occupy, while the pitcher has the ball in pitching position and until a pitched ball has reached or passed the batsman.

Slow Pitching Softball Rules. Base Running - The official rule governing leading off a base and stealing bases is amended for slow-pitching with this provision: The base runner shall not be called out for taking a lead off a base while the pticher has the ball in pitching position, but must return if he has reached the next base safely unless the batter has legally hit the ball, in which even it continues in play. A runner may be tagged out at any time while off his base, except when returning after having reached the next base safely.

Sounds a lot like the present 16" game

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

So, BBS (Back Before Stealing) if the pitch was swung at and missed and the runner than left the base immediately after the swing, you would call the runner out?

I don't think so, the runner just had to return to his/her base because BBS, the ball was dead. Right?

Correct. The pitch had (presumably) already reached home plate or touched the ground, so the runner maintained contact with their base for as long as they were required.