do not pitch/"time"/illegal pitch

[Little Jimmy]

So Irish, do you interpret a "do not pitch" signal in the same way as a "time" signal? That's the crux of the biscuit for me.

[topper]

You are correct LJ, they are different signals with different meanings. Following your partner's reasoning, the pitcher can make any illegal move other than putting a foreign substance on the ball and not be called for it because, in his mind, your "do not pitch" signal is a complete suspension of play. "Do not pitch" means simply that.

And, as I'm sure you know, a quick pitch is not an illegal pitch provided the pitcher's preliminary requirements are met.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by topper

You are correct LJ, they are different signals with different meanings. Following your partner's reasoning, the pitcher make any illegal move other than putting a foreign substance on the ball and not be called for it because, in his mind, your "do not pitch" signal is a complete suspension of play. "Do not pitch" means simply that.

And, as I'm sure you know, a quick pitch is not an illegal pitch provided the pitcher's preliminary requirements are met.

Topper....excellent point. And just to add to your response...a quick pitch is ruled to be "No Pitch."
NCAA 10.9
ASA 6.10 (c)

LJ....Your partner was wrong on this.
Based on your OP, IMO I feel you were handling the sitch correctly from your end as the PU.
Question....did you and your BU cover IP's in your pre-game?

[Little Jimmy]

My partner and I have worked together numerous times and I consider him to be one of the top umps I go on the field with. We did not cover this specific situation, but afterwards he said he was calling the hands issue because he thought I was missing something.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

My partner and I have worked together numerous times and I consider him to be one of the top umps I go on the field with. We did not cover this specific situation, but afterwards he said he was calling the hands issue because he thought I was missing something.

LJ...ok I got that. Now my next questions (because I'm not 100% clear from your OP or this reply), are:

1) What did he think it was that you were missing with the hands?
2) What position was he in when he made the IP call?
3) How many times did he make this call?
4) At what point did he discuss with you "what he thought you were missing"?

[Little Jimmy]

My partner was in C each time. He made 3 illegal pitch calls from that positon (by the way, I made 2 other unrelated illegal calls at other times in the game. The girl simply didn't know the mechanics). Between innings he asked me if I was going to start calling the illegals, since the hand motions/timings are generally the plate's responsibility. I explained that I did not feel the same way he did and that I felt she was taking the sign when I was holding up the pitcher with a do not pitch signal. We agreed to disagree at that moment. Once again he felt that my do not pitch signal meant "time" and that the pitcher could not simulate taking a pitch when "time was granted.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

So Irish, do you interpret a "do not pitch" signal in the same way as a "time" signal? That's the crux of the biscuit for me.

No, I don't.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No, I don't.

Just for clarification sake, While you are holding up the pitcher with the 'do not pitch' signal can the following take place? (ASA rule set)

1) The pitcher place both feet on the rubber, with hands separated, and then bring the hand together. (meaning, once you declare 'ready' , would the pitcher have to 'restart' the preliminary of the pitch or simply continue?)

2) while unlikely, could you have a LBR violation or base runner leaving a bag early prior to the pitch?

TIA

[CecilOne]

It seems to me that the pause for a sign or simulation is to protect the batter from a "quick pitch". As the batter often also relaxes or steps out on a "do not pitch" situation, the sign/simulation should take place after the "do not pitch" is over.
I don't see this as a time out or not issue, just a question of the rule intent.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

It seems to me that the pause for a sign or simulation is to protect the batter from a "quick pitch". As the batter often also relaxes or steps out on a "do not pitch" situation, the sign/simulation should take place after the "do not pitch" is over.
I don't see this as a time out or not issue, just a question of the rule intent.

JMO, but you are looking at it exactly opposite how I look at it. The only valid reason to hold up the pitcher with DNP is because the batter hasn't had a chance to get ready. If the batter doesn't choose to get ready while I'm holding up the pitcher, then after that, it isn't a "quick pitch", it is a stupid batter.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

JMO, but you are looking at it exactly opposite how I look at it. The only valid reason to hold up the pitcher with DNP is because the batter hasn't had a chance to get ready. If the batter doesn't choose to get ready while I'm holding up the pitcher, then after that, it isn't a "quick pitch", it is a stupid batter.

And I've seen that too, but believe the batter being ready (slowly or quickly) starts the whole sequence, else the required pause is meaningless.

[ronald]

my two cents.

you are the pu. the hands are your business. partner out of line.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

Just for clarification sake, While you are holding up the pitcher with the 'do not pitch' signal can the following take place? (ASA rule set)

1) The pitcher place both feet on the rubber, with hands separated, and then bring the hand together. (meaning, once you declare 'ready' , would the pitcher have to 'restart' the preliminary of the pitch or simply continue?)

That seems to be a contradiction, but when you are holding the pitcher, that is all you are doing, holding the pitcher. Since "holding" a pitcher is means by which an umpire prevents a quick pitch, the batter should be prepared or you wouldn't let her pitch, right?

2) while unlikely, could you have a LBR violation or base runner leaving a bag early prior to the pitch?

TIA

Can't say without seeing it, but I would not discount the possibility.

OTOH, ger rid of the LBR and that issue would disappear.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

That seems to be a contradiction, but when you are holding the pitcher, that is all you are doing, holding the pitcher. Since "holding" a pitcher is means by which an umpire prevents a quick pitch, the batter should be prepared or you wouldn't let her pitch, right?

Agreed, I am trying to understand if I am doing the correct mechanic when I 'hold' the pitcher. Currently, I am allowing her to perform the preliminaries, prior to the 'starting' of the pitch. I have seen other umpires, who would require to restart the pitch from the 'preliminaries'. It seems a little of defeating the purpose and slowing the game even further to force the pitcher to restart the preliminaries.



[/QUOTE]

[ronald]

we are not calling into question the credentials of your partner. he made a mistake. can you see this? are you willing to say that and believe that? may be you have done this earlier and that case, ignore the questions.

this is not one of those situations where the other ump comes in and helps out the other ump. he was out of line and needs to be told that by you or someone else.

now i have given four cents. pocket is empty.