do not pitch/"time"/illegal pitch

[Little Jimmy]

My partner is a good umpire who I'd go on the field with anytime. He was/is simply very sure of his interpretation, while I was banking on mine. It's the difference(or not) between DNP and "time" that was at the heart of the matter. The idea of a runner leaving the bag early while I have my hand holding the pitcher up, only for me to say "I had time", and not have any penalty, didn't set right with me.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

Just for clarification sake, While you are holding up the pitcher with the 'do not pitch' signal can the following take place? (ASA rule set)

1) The pitcher place both feet on the rubber, with hands separated, and then bring the hand together. (meaning, once you declare 'ready' , would the pitcher have to 'restart' the preliminary of the pitch or simply continue?)

That seems to be a contradiction, but when you are holding the pitcher, that is all you are doing, holding the pitcher. Since "holding" a pitcher is means by which an umpire prevents a quick pitch, the batter should be prepared or you wouldn't let her pitch, right?

2) while unlikely, could you have a LBR violation or base runner leaving a bag early prior to the pitch?

TIA

Can't say without seeing it, but I would not discount the possibility.

OTOH, ger rid of the LBR and that issue would disappear.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

That seems to be a contradiction, but when you are holding the pitcher, that is all you are doing, holding the pitcher. Since "holding" a pitcher is means by which an umpire prevents a quick pitch, the batter should be prepared or you wouldn't let her pitch, right?

Agreed, I am trying to understand if I am doing the correct mechanic when I 'hold' the pitcher. Currently, I am allowing her to perform the preliminaries, prior to the 'starting' of the pitch. I have seen other umpires, who would require to restart the pitch from the 'preliminaries'. It seems a little of defeating the purpose and slowing the game even further to force the pitcher to restart the preliminaries.



[/QUOTE]

[ronald]

we are not calling into question the credentials of your partner. he made a mistake. can you see this? are you willing to say that and believe that? may be you have done this earlier and that case, ignore the questions.

this is not one of those situations where the other ump comes in and helps out the other ump. he was out of line and needs to be told that by you or someone else.

now i have given four cents. pocket is empty.

[Little Jimmy]

It's all cool , Ronald. Every ump makes a mistake or two, maybe even Mike (this is where I'd put a smiley face if I knew how to). I'm just trying to get all the info I can before I do a "who's right and who's wrong" thing.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

My partner is a good umpire who I'd go on the field with anytime. He was/is simply very sure of his interpretation, while I was banking on mine. It's the difference(or not) between DNP and "time" that was at the heart of the matter. The idea of a runner leaving the bag early while I have my hand holding the pitcher up, only for me to say "I had time", and not have any penalty, didn't set right with me.

JL:
I respect your opinion of your partner and the manner in which you hold him as a top umpire who you would take the field with anytime. That's about the best compliment that any umpire can give his partner.
It appears by the tone of your post(s) that your partner (and please correct me if I'm wrong here) is senior to you in umpiring experience and age. If he is, it certainly explains your deference to him.
That being said, as several posters have stated, he was wrong here. The way you described the sitch, this is your call. It's clearly evident that as the PU, you were on top of the situation. It's not like you were back there totally clueless to what was going on and to the possibility of an IP or a QP. You had control of the situation and in your judgement there were no violations. End of story. Until the OC comes out and complains it's not an issue. For all his good points, your P really did you no favors here. I'm surprised that he didn't catch any crap from the DC on the IP calls.
IMO, he showed you up. He also has either no regard or knowledge for the prescribed NCAA mechanics for crew responsibilities on IP's, does not know the NCAA definition and effect of a quick pitch, and has a rather warped concept about how to work as a crew.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

It's all cool , Ronald. Every ump makes a mistake or two, maybe even Mike (this is where I'd put a smiley face if I knew how to). .

Just click on the one you want to the right of the text box. The appropriate one for your comment is , but could be or .

BTW, I don't remember being at that game ("My partner is a good umpire who I'd go on the field with anytime")

[SergioJ]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

His contention was that as I gave the one handed do not pitch signal that this signal meant "time" and that when I lowered my hand the pitcher had to keep her hands seperated a little longer, simulate taking a signal, and then pitch. I felt that my one handed hold up play signal was not "time" and that as she stood, hands seperated, during my do not pitch signal that she was indeed taking the signal. She certainly wanted to pitch as soon as I lowered my hand but I felt she was within the rules.

I had pretty much the same scenario in a recent college game. Pitcher had a tendency to "quick pitch." So, I slowed her down by raising my hand in a DO NOT PITCH signal. I did this while the batters were getting set in the batters box. Now, here's my side. Since all I was doing was telling the pitcher not to pitch, I continued to count the seconds off in my head for the batter to get ready in the box (as per NCAA Rules Book). How can you do this if you rule TIME? This would mean that a batter can take more than her allotted time to get in the box, right? And by slowing the pitcher down, she certainly met the criteria for taking (or simulating taking) a signal on the plate with hands separated. I don't think there's anything in the rules book that says when, during the "countoff" pitcher is to do this. Unless, time really was called.

Just my thoughts (for whatever the're worth).

Serg

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SergioJ

I had pretty much the same scenario in a recent college game. Pitcher had a tendency to "quick pitch." So, I slowed her down by raising my hand in a DO NOT PITCH signal. I did this while the batters were getting set in the batters box. Now, here's my side. Since all I was doing was telling the pitcher not to pitch, I continued to count the seconds off in my head for the batter to get ready in the box (as per NCAA Rules Book). How can you do this if you rule TIME? This would mean that a batter can take more than her allotted time to get in the box, right? And by slowing the pitcher down, she certainly met the criteria for taking (or simulating taking) a signal on the plate with hands separated. I don't think there's anything in the rules book that says when, during the "countoff" pitcher is to do this. Unless, time really was called.

Just my thoughts (for whatever the're worth).

There is something I want to post, but I'm afraid people would take it the wrong way and wonder how an umpire could call an IP for not releasing in time while being held up by the PU

[bniu]

just call time, and when the batter gets set, you get set and point to the pitcher "play". If she quick pitches, declare a no-pitch and if she asks why, tell her that you haven't lifted the "time" call yet. Usually the pitcher gets the hint after once or twice. The pitcher quick pitching is one of the reasons I will never put on my mask directly behind the plate. If the mask comes off, I step to the side, put my mask on, and step back behind the catcher. If I see the pitcher pitching, a quick "time" call usually gets her to stop...