DP / Flex Help!

[Skahtboi]

The simple rule of thumb to remember in ALL DP/FLEX situations is that to be considered in the game, the person playing the position must be performing the duties of that position. Period.

In other words, if the starting FLEX is not playing defense, then they are considered to have left the game.

If the starting DP is not playing offense, then they are considered to have left the game.

Period. End of story.

Now, these people who have left the game may re-enter once, or be substituted for with a legal substitute. No reason to make it any harder than that!

[Dakota]

FLEX and DP are positions, not players. The substitute and re-entry rules do not apply to positions.

The players playing the positions FLEX and DP are, however, governed by the substitution and re-entry rules.

If the player playing the FLEX position (DP position) is not playing defense (offense), that player AND that position have left the game. (Line up back to 9).

If the player playing the FLEX position (DP position) who was so removed from the game re-enters the game, that player has used up her re-entry rights and if taken out of the game again may not re-enter.

However, this does not terminate the FLEX position (DP position). Any eligible substitute can be placed in either position.

[marvin]

Originally Posted by NPRIVITOR

. . .

Line Up Card
Num Name Pos
1 Angie 1
2 Barbie 2
3 Casey 8
4 Darla DP
5..9 ...
10 Julie (Flex) 3

Originally Posted by NPRIVITOR

. . .At the start of the first inning, Darla (DP) goes in on defense and plays for Casey. Throughout the entire game, Casey actually stays on the bench for Defense but bats on Offense.

Legal - Darla or whoever is occupying her spot if Darla is substituted for is still the DP. The DP is whoever is in that fourth spot in the lineup.

Originally Posted by NPRIVITOR

. . .So when we come up on offense, Angie hits a single and gets on base. I immediately bring my Flex in to run for her.

Not if the ump is paying attention.

Originally Posted by NFHS Rules

Rule 2, Section 57 ART. 3 . . . Illegal Substitute. An illegal substitute is a player who enters or re-enters the game without eligibility to do so (illegal re-entry); a player who re-enters the game in the wrong position in the batting order; (F.P.) the FLEX who enters the game as a batter or runner in a different position in the batting order than the DP; or a player who violates the courtesy-runner rule.

The DP is Darla (the fourth spot in the batting order)

If you are thinking that the Flex can be a courtesy runner see:

Originally Posted by NFHS Rules

Rule 8, Sect. 9, ART. 3 . . . Players who are currently in the game or have participated in the game in any other playing capacity are ineligible to serve as courtesy runners.

Since a player in the game can't be used as a CR the Flex can not be used as a CR.

[marvin]

Originally Posted by ronald

Sometimes people use terms back and forth and think it is perfectly clear to everyone what is happening or what the correct interpretaton is. I wonder if this is not the case with the DP and the Flex and the term out of the game (line up management tutorial or left the game). This deals with one going in for the other.

Regardless of the term, one means that the DP or the flex is not leaving the game under the substitution rubrics. It is a whole different rubric.

My understanding is the starting DP and Flex can swap back and forth all game long and it has no bearing on re-entry.

Originally Posted by NFHS Rules

Rule 2, SECTION 57 SUBSTITUTE, UNREPORTED, ILLEGAL
ART. 1 . . . Substitute. A substitute is a player not listed on the lineup as a starter but who may legally replace a starting player; any player who enters or reenters the game; the DP when the DP plays defense for the FLEX; or the FLEX when the FLEX plays offense for the DP.

The rules clearly state that when the DP plays defense for the Flex or the Flex plays offense for the DP this is a substitution.

Think of it this way. The DP has left the game when she is not playing offense. The Flex has left the game when she is not playing defense.

If you have left the game to play again you must re-enter the game. You can only legally re-enter one time. So while the Flex and DP can switch any number of times the players in those positions can only leave and re-enter once per game.

Abby is the starting DP
Betty is the starting Flex

Abby reaches base - Betty runs for her
Result Abby has left the game

Abby re-enters to hit when her spot comes up again and reaches base again
Betty runs for her
Abby has now left the game a second time and can not return

The DP's spot in the line-up comes up again, Coach uses sub Carol to bat for Abby. Carol reaches base.
Betty runs for the DP, who is now Carol.
Carol has left the game

When the DPs spot comes up again the coach can re-enter Carol or use another player as a sub and Betty can run for the DP again if the DP reaches base.

Betty has not left the game. The DP and Flex have been switched as many time as the coach wants. The substitution rules have been applied correctly.

You can not pick one sentence out of the rule book and ONLY apply that.
This phrase:

c. The DP can replace anyone on defense any time, any number of times while the FLEX player may replace the DP any time, any number of times.

appears in the NFHS rule book in the POE section under dp/flex as a basic rule to remember for coaches. It fails to mention that the DP and Flex are not players they are positions. While the two may replace each other any number of times the actual person/player is limited to one re-entry.

[ronald]

where the .... were you guys when this was presented?

I have heard it presented at least 3 or 4 times and never heard the distinguishing term player vs position. I learned that if one went in for the other then when they came back it was his her one reentry.

thanks to all.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by ronald

where the .... were you guys when this was presented?

I have heard it presented at least 3 or 4 times and never heard the distinguishing term player vs position. I learned that if one went in for the other then when they came back it was his her one reentry.

thanks to all.

I've read it in the rule book.

DP / FLEX defined as positions: ASA 4-1-C-1-b (fast pitch); 4-1-C-2-b, d (modified pitch).

Discussed WRT the player playing the position for substitute rule purposes: ASA 4-3-C, D, F, & I.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ronald

My understanding is the starting DP and Flex can swap back and forth all game long and it has no bearing on re-entry.

Well, Ronald, how is the DP supposed to move to the Flex?

This is why the term DEFO was more appropriate, but being good Americans everyone had to follow the neighbor. The DEFO could only play defense.

Now is where a few folks are saying, "no, no, no, the Flex/DEFO can bat!" Well, yes and no. The player in the position can bat, but then they are no longer the FLEX/DEFO since that position no longer exists when that player moves into the DP's batting position.