your call plz

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by upstateump

2 outs, bottom 7, tie ball game, runners on 1st and 3rd, batter gets base hit, runner on 3rd scores, ball is tossed to the infield around pitching rubber, defensive and offensive players, assuming the game is over, begin to vacate field, as they do an offensive player picks the ball up and tosses it into the dugout, the batter/runner had touched 1st base, but the runner on 1st never touched 2nd base, as they are celebrating their supposive win the defensive coach approaches umpire and wants to appeal that the runner on 1st never touched 2nd and vacated the field for an out that would eliminate the run because of the force out...whats the verdict

Interesting sitch. A little bizarre, but interesting. Breaking it down under NCAA rules here's how I see it:

1.2 outs, bottom 7, tie ball game, runners on 1st and 3rd, batter gets base hit,runner on 3rd scores...
At this point the game is over (for the moment anyway)...you have a winner. 6.2.1

2....an offensive player picks the ball up and tosses it into the dugout...
Not pertinent to sitch. The ball became dead when the runner from 3rd scored giving the home team the winning run (for the moment) in the bottom of the 7th. 6.12.1.2.1

3. ......defensive coach approaches umpire and wants to appeal....
OK under NCAA rules. 7.1.2.2.1

4. Now IF, (as it was not stated in your OP), that the DC's request for an appeal of the runner on 1st failed to touch 2nd, was made "before the pitcher and all infielders have clearly vacated their normal fielding positions and have left fair territory, and the catcher has clearly vacated her normal her normal fielding position." 7.1.1.2.3
You have a dead ball appeal. 3 outs. Score still tied. Visitors lead off the top of the 8th inning.

5. If defense DID NOT meet the requirements in #4 for a proper dead ball appeal,
Game over. Home team wins.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

"before the pitcher and all infielders have clearly vacated their normal fielding positions and have left fair territory, and the catcher has clearly vacated her normal her normal fielding position." 7.1.1.2.3

Just out of curiosity, how can an infielder not leave their normal fielding position if they have left fair territory?

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Just out of curiosity, how can an infielder not leave their normal fielding position if they have left fair territory?

Good point Mike, clever how those NCAA devils wrote that rule.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Interesting sitch. A little bizarre, but interesting. Breaking it down under NCAA rules here's how I see it:

1.2 outs, bottom 7, tie ball game, runners on 1st and 3rd, batter gets base hit,runner on 3rd scores...
At this point the game is over (for the moment anyway)...you have a winner. 6.2.1

2....an offensive player picks the ball up and tosses it into the dugout...
Not pertinent to sitch. The ball became dead when the runner from 3rd scored giving the home team the winning run (for the moment) in the bottom of the 7th. 6.12.1.2.1
[snip]
Game over. Home team wins.

I'm not an NCAA expert by any means but I don't believe this can be right. If the ball were dead them moment the runner from third scored then how would you deal with this variant of the situation. Right after the runner scores the forced runner is forced out at second. Surely she can't be safe on the theory that she was just completing her dead ball baserunning responsibilities.
________
TopJoy.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by youngump

I'm not an NCAA expert by any means but I don't believe this can be right. If the ball were dead them moment the runner from third scored then how would you deal with this variant of the situation. Right after the runner scores the forced runner is forced out at second. Surely she can't be safe on the theory that she was just completing her dead ball baserunning responsibilities.

Not quite sure I understand your question clearly, or exactly what you are referring to when you said "this variant of the situation". I'll try to reply based on what I think you're asking.
First, I'm not an NCAA expert either, I had my books handy when I saw the OP, found it an interesting sitch, and looked at it from the perspective that if it happened in a college game, how would I have handled it, referencing the applicable NCAAA rule number.
My point to the poster about the dead ball not being pertinent to the sitch is this...when the run scored the game was over. Home team is jumping around, high fiving each other thinking that they won. At that moment the rule book definition of a completed game had been satisfied. Because the game is over the ball is dead. To illustrate it another way, say the batter hits a home run over the fence. When the ball cleared the fence it became, by rule, a dead ball. The offensive player in the OP who threw the ball into the dugout did not cause the ball to become a dead ball. it already was a dead ball by virtue of the home run. Hence, her actions have no bearing on the play. There is no base award given to any of the runners or the batter runner because she threw the ball into the dugout. As Irish pointed out in his initial reply to OP.....(paraphrasing here)....'we don't need the ball.'
Our concern on the field as a crew is:
1. Did the runner on 1st complete her base running obligation to touch 2nd after the BR got her base hit that scored the runner from 3rd?
2. Did the defensive team satisfy the rule requirements for a proper appeal?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Not quite sure I understand your question clearly, or exactly what you are referring to when you said "this variant of the situation". I'll try to reply based on what I think you're asking.
First, I'm not an NCAA expert either, I had my books handy when I saw the OP, found it an interesting sitch, and looked at it from the perspective that if it happened in a college game, how would I have handled it, referencing the applicable NCAAA rule number.
My point to the poster about the dead ball not being pertinent to the sitch is this...when the run scored the game was over. Home team is jumping around, high fiving each other thinking that they won. At that moment the rule book definition of a completed game had been satisfied. Because the game is over the ball is dead. To illustrate it another way, say the batter hits a home run over the fence. When the ball cleared the fence it became, by rule, a dead ball. The offensive player in the OP who threw the ball into the dugout did not cause the ball to become a dead ball. it already was a dead ball by virtue of the home run. Hence, her actions have no bearing on the play. There is no base award given to any of the runners or the batter runner because she threw the ball into the dugout. As Irish pointed out in his initial reply to OP.....(paraphrasing here)....'we don't need the ball.'
Our concern on the field as a crew is:
1. Did the runner on 1st complete her base running obligation to touch 2nd after the BR got her base hit that scored the runner from 3rd?
2. Did the defensive team satisfy the rule requirements for a proper appeal?

So, to clarify the variation youngump was describing, if R2 keeps running toward 2B, and a defender notices, the fielder cannot throw the ball to 2B to force out the runner?

[robbie]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Not quite sure I understand your question clearly, or exactly what you are referring to when you said "this variant of the situation". I'll try to reply based on what I think you're asking.
First, I'm not an NCAA expert either, I had my books handy when I saw the OP, found it an interesting sitch, and looked at it from the perspective that if it happened in a college game, how would I have handled it, referencing the applicable NCAAA rule number.
My point to the poster about the dead ball not being pertinent to the sitch is this...when the run scored the game was over. Home team is jumping around, high fiving each other thinking that they won. At that moment the rule book definition of a completed game had been satisfied. Because the game is over the ball is dead. To illustrate it another way, say the batter hits a home run over the fence. When the ball cleared the fence it became, by rule, a dead ball. The offensive player in the OP who threw the ball into the dugout did not cause the ball to become a dead ball. it already was a dead ball by virtue of the home run. Hence, her actions have no bearing on the play. There is no base award given to any of the runners or the batter runner because she threw the ball into the dugout. As Irish pointed out in his initial reply to OP.....(paraphrasing here)....'we don't need the ball.'
Our concern on the field as a crew is:
1. Did the runner on 1st complete her base running obligation to touch 2nd after the BR got her base hit that scored the runner from 3rd?
2. Did the defensive team satisfy the rule requirements for a proper appeal?

I thought I already posted this, but guess I did something wrong, because its not here....

I disagree that the game is over and or that the ball is dead when the runner touches home.

To illustrate, lets change the situation slightly:

Lets say that runner on third is running on the release of the pitch.

Lets say that the runner from first is very slow.

Lets say that the "hit" is a slow gorund ball to F6.

Its likely that R1 would (or certainly could) reach home while F6 is still in the process of fielding the ball and throwing to F4 for a forceout.

Noone would suggest that the game is over (or conditionally over) or that the ball is dead when the runner touches home.

From a prcatical point, this is the play in the original post.

By the way, I'm not questioning the outcome or the ruling - only stating that the game nor the play ends when R1 touches home.