ITB - 9th spot vacant

[SC Ump]

Top of 11 and B1 is scheduled to lead off. B9 was injured, ejected or left to finish her trig homework. For the international tie breaker, do you (a) put B8 at 2nd, (b) just leave 2nd empty or (c) start the inning with one out?

(This came up at our preseason meeting and we got an immediate ruling since the state director happened to be in the building. I just thought I'd post it anyway to provoke a little thinking. )

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

Top of 11 and B1 is scheduled to lead off. B9 was injured, ejected or left to finish her trig homework. For the international tie breaker, do you (a) put B8 at 2nd, (b) just leave 2nd empty or (c) start the inning with one out?

(This came up at our preseason meeting and we got an immediate ruling since the state director happened to be in the building. I just thought I'd post it anyway to provoke a little thinking. )

Not to be a smart ***, but this is so simple, I find it hard to believe there are people still out there that do not understand this.

When a tie breaker is in effect, there is ALWAYS a runner placed on 2B. There cannot be an "automatic" out since no situation exists where that rule would apply.

It is ALWAYS the player (or a substitute) scheduled to bat last in that inning. That doesn't mean the third player, but that last scheduled to bat prior to the lead-off batting a second time in that same half inning.

[NCASAUmp]

Mike's correct. If B1 is scheduled to bat first in the inning, you go to whoever precedes her in the lineup. If that player is injured, ejected, etc., you just go to whoever precedes HER in the lineup, which is B8.

[Tru_in_Blu]

A point of clarification please.

If B9 had left the game via ejection, and the team was only playing 9, wouldn't the game be forfeited?

There could be other situations where a team started w/ more than 9, B9 was ejected and replaced in the lineup with a sub, game continues. Then the sub gets hurt or has to leave and the game continues w/ an automatic out when that batter is due up.

Do I have this right?

Thanx.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

A point of clarification please.

If B9 had left the game via ejection, and the team was only playing 9, wouldn't the game be forfeited?

There could be other situations where a team started w/ more than 9, B9 was ejected and replaced in the lineup with a sub, game continues. Then the sub gets hurt or has to leave and the game continues w/ an automatic out when that batter is due up.

Do I have this right?

Thanx.

Under strict ASA rules, yes, you're correct. Good catch.

A lot of local leagues, however, have rules that supersede this rule, as their emphasis is on participation and not allowing one bad apple to ruin their fun.

Moral of the story? Know where you're calling.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Not to be a smart ***, but this is so simple, I find it hard to believe there are people still out there that do not understand this.

Plus, throw in the fact that this very situation is summed up in two sentences right there in the rule book under the Tie-Breaker Rule and it kind of puts a quick end to any debate!

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Not to be a smart ***, but this is so simple, I find it hard to believe there are people still out there that do not understand this.

When a tie breaker is in effect, there is ALWAYS a runner placed on 2B. There cannot be an "automatic" out since no situation exists where that rule would apply.

It is ALWAYS the player (or a substitute) scheduled to bat last in that inning. That doesn't mean the third player, but that last scheduled to bat prior to the lead-off batting a second time in that same half inning.

I disagree.

B1= leadoff batter that inning. B9=empty spot in the batting order, team playing shorthanded. B9 was the final out of the previous inning.

In the ITB, the last out goes on 2B. Since the last out was an absent player, no player is placed on 2B.

I have that ruling officially from my UIC.

[Dakota]

BTW, UIC... Uber Informed Coach

[celebur]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I disagree.

B1= leadoff batter that inning. B9=empty spot in the batting order, team playing shorthanded. B9 was the final out of the previous inning.

In the ITB, the last out goes on 2B. Since the last out was an absent player, no player is placed on 2B.

I have that ruling officially from my UIC.

Is it the last out that is placed on 2B? Or the last batter scheduled to bat?

[celebur]

Originally Posted by Dakota

BTW, UIC... Uber Informed Coach

Oops, sorry, I missed this the first time. . .

[shipwreck]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I disagree.

B1= leadoff batter that inning. B9=empty spot in the batting order, team playing shorthanded. B9 was the final out of the previous inning.

In the ITB, the last out goes on 2B. Since the last out was an absent player, no player is placed on 2B.

I have that ruling officially from my UIC.

The last out does not go on 2B.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

The last out does not go on 2B.

I think he was being facetious.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

If B9 had left the game via ejection, and the team was only playing 9, wouldn't the game be forfeited?

Sorry about that. You are correct and I did not mean to confuse things.

All the umpires and the state director agree as noted above that you put the last batter of the inning on the base. If B9 is an empty spot, then use B8. (How often do you get a room full of umpires to agee.)

[SRW]

I didn't think International softball had a tie breaker rule.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by SRW

I didn't think International softball had a tie breaker rule.

I'm not sure what point you are making. International softball originated the tiebreaker rule, most often called the ITB, standing for International Tie Breaker. Unfortunately, that is only accurate in international softball; in every other case, it is simply the tiebreaker rule of whatever organization has that rule (which most often is modeled after the ITB); ie the ASA tiebreaker rule, the NCAA tiebreaker rule, etc.

As is true in ASA, the tiebreaker rule is generally not in effect in adult play; it is used in youth/JO/junior softball.