3' running lane violation on BB?

[robbie]

Originally Posted by BlitzkriegBob

Tom beat me to the punch, and nailed it of course. Robbie, this is only my first year doing NSA, but I find nothing to support keeping the ball live in the rule book or case book. I'll email Terri (if I remember correctly you're also from Indiana) to ask her if I'm wrong, but I believe NSA treats the LBR the same as every other code.

Thanks for the replies. Here in lies one of the major problems with NSA rules. It is generally accepted (at least in Indiana) that the case book for NSA has no merit. There are definately several "cases" in the book that are devinbately wrong. This, of course, may or may not be one of them.

There are several "mistakes, typos, contradictions, etc" in the NSA book that I keep thinking I will write a major report to be presented to the annual meeting - But I never seem to be able to make time to do so.

I stopped refering to the case book for the reason stated above. In general I take the rules for face value, and in this case as stated - there is no rule to kill the play.

If I were in a game and called 2 outs on LBR and had a protest, I'm confident the rulling on the field would hold up. The UIC would have a rule book, and I would show that there is no provision to kill the play.

For what its worth (not much) - I worked a game last year with a Team Indiana staff member, and we had a situation where we did call the first LBR violation out and both rulled that the second runner "returned" quickly enough after her legal stop to avoid violation.

Having said all that - Not sure what Indiana would say the "intent" of the rule is. They certainly may say its dead.

PS:

Bob, Do I know you? Are you in Indiana? I know Terri well, and will inquire as well.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Does NSA kill the ball when a runner leaves the base prior to the release of a pitch?

[robbie]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Does NSA kill the ball when a runner leaves the base prior to the release of a pitch?

Yes - Dead ball, runner out.

[robbie]

Originally Posted by robbie

Yes - Dead ball, runner out.

Actually, the correct mechanic is: No pitch. Runner out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by robbie

Actually, the correct mechanic is: No pitch. Runner out.

Okay, now if you think about it, this and the LBR are based upon the same theory that the runner is not in contact with the base when required.

Is it the same rule? No, because the LBR is more tolerable and allows the runner to continue until s/he stops and then dictates immediate move to come in contact with the base. The leaving early is just the LBR with the runner already stopped and in place prior to the violation.

The cause is a little different, but I would think the effect should probably be the same.

[robbie]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Okay, now if you think about it, this and the LBR are based upon the same theory that the runner is not in contact with the base when required.

Is it the same rule? No, because the LBR is more tolerable and allows the runner to continue until s/he stops and then dictates immediate move to come in contact with the base. The leaving early is just the LBR with the runner already stopped and in place prior to the violation.

The cause is a little different, but I would think the effect should probably be the same.

I completely agree. My above discussions are only based on what the book says and how I would rule in live play or as a UIC (Bases on the rules as written)

[BretMan]

Wow. I wouldn't put much faith in a sanctioning body who's Case Book is so out of whack that it "has no merit", to the point that the umpires simply disregard it.

(And I was registered with NSA a couple of seasons and worked some of their tournaments. Never had the occassion to invoke an out on the Look Back Rule and was never instructed to call this any differently than the rest of the softball world.)

If a "tie goes to the runner" .... then in this case I'd have to say that a tie goes to the interpretive guidelines issued by the sanctioning body for whom you are working games. Having not one, but two, separate Case Plays saying the ball is dead on a LBR violation is pretty strong evidence that it's not a "typo" or a "mistake"- it's what they really mean!

Just out of curiosity, what other glaring mistakes can be found in the NSA Case Book?

[BlitzkriegBob]

Originally Posted by robbie

Bob, Do I know you? Are you in Indiana? I know Terri well, and will inquire as well.

I don't think we've met, but I could be wrong. Yes, I live in South Whitley, which is in the Fort Wayne area. This is my first year doing NSA, and I didn't sign up until July. I've worked a few tournaments in Warsaw, but nowhere else. I don't remember having a partner named Robbie, but we very well could have been sitting next to each other in the umpires' room at some point if you also have worked in Warsaw. I'm hoping to work some more tournaments at the Dome in Fort Wayne during the winter.

I did email Terri, but have not had a response yet. It typically takes her a couple of days to respond, but once she does I'll share what she says, unless you hear from her first. FWIW, I have not had a LBR violation in any NSA games I've done so far, so it would be good to know I'm not supposed to kill the ball if that's the case, since I know that's what I would have done.