verbalizing the count

[shipwreck]

I know this is a minor question but would like input from anyone who has been evaluated and this came up. As PU when you signal the count no balls and any amount of strikes, do you say "no balls" then followed by the number of strikes or are you supposed to say just the number of strikes? Say it is 0 balls and 2 strikes, do you say "no balls, two strikes" or "two strikes" while you are signaling. Same way wth say 3 balls, no strikes. Should you say "three balls, no strikes" or just "three balls" while you are signaling without the mention of "no balls" Thanks, Dave

[NCASAUmp]

In all seriousness, I've always been taught to never tell a batter he has "no balls, two strikes."

[shipwreck]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

In all seriousness, I've always been taught to never tell a batter he has "no balls, two strikes."

I only umpire girls fast pitch. Oh also, thanks for the advice on not putting weight on my thighs when getting set on the bases. I set up like you said and had no problems getting into position to make a call on the bases when a girl was stealing. Before I must of had to stand up first and then start moving into postion. One little change made all the difference in the world. Dave

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

In all seriousness, I've always been taught to never tell a batter he has "no balls, two strikes."

And, that used to be the ASA standard as taught by the old NUS. But the new ASA NUS had a different direction.

More recently, that has been revised, and was the subject of an approved, restated, and required mechanic; I believe in 2006 (?). We were directed that a) that prior standard was never put in writing, and therefore was not a standard, and that b) the manual direction to "give the count" meant to give the full count in all cases. Since we verbalize one ball, two balls, three balls, no strikes, one strike, and two strikes, in any and all combinations, we were directed to also verbalize no balls; without regard to the possibility that it was the set up line for any number of jokes or issues.

Since then, and to minimize issues, I say "Our count is no balls, two strikes", and that has effectively eliminated any discussion that I either insulted the batter, or set myself up for "Did you say you have no balls??", et al.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

And, that used to be the ASA standard as taught by the old NUS. But the new ASA NUS had a different direction.

More recently, that has been revised, and was the subject of an approved, restated, and required mechanic; I believe in 2006 (?). We were directed that a) that prior standard was never put in writing, and therefore was not a standard, and that b) the manual direction to "give the count" meant to give the full count in all cases. Since we verbalize one ball, two balls, three balls, no strikes, one strike, and two strikes, in any and all combinations, we were directed to also verbalize no balls; without regard to the possibility that it was the set up line for any number of jokes or issues.

Surprisingly, despite having gone to 3 local clinics, one state clinic and the NUS just this year alone (and having done similar in the previous years), this was never discussed. However, I have seen a number of umpires who have risen up the ranks who, when giving the count, will state "no balls, two strikes."

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Since then, and to minimize issues, I say "Our count is no balls, two strikes", and that has effectively eliminated any discussion that I either insulted the batter, or set myself up for "Did you say you have no balls??", et al.

Well, fortunately for me, I only do SP, so we have a 1-1 count that negates any of this. However, if I do senior or masters games, I do say, "the count is no balls, two strikes," or I will just hold up my left hand in a fist, then hold up my right with two fingers and say, "two strikes." I'm a bit surprised that neither of the NUS I went to in the past two years ever addressed this, despite the fact that this was part of our drills.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

In all seriousness, I've always been taught to never tell a batter he has "no balls, two strikes."

In all seriousness, the count includes the number of ball and strikes on the batter. If some idiot wants to act offended, that is their problem.

P.O.O.P.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ncasaump

well, fortunately for me, i only do sp, so we have a 1-1 count that negates any of this.

:d

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

In all seriousness, the count includes the number of ball and strikes on the batter. If some idiot wants to act offended, that is their problem.

P.O.O.P.

Well, the flip side to that was before the 1-1 count, I would also announce a 3-0 count as, "3 balls." It wasn't just a "no balls" thing.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Well, the flip side to that was before the 1-1 count, I would also announce a 3-0 count as, "3 balls." It wasn't just a "no balls" thing.

Well, since so many people who claim to be clean-minded Americans seem to be offended by anything that they can only derive as questionable if their 7yo mind was in the gutter, maybe we should just eliminate the terms "ball" and "strike" (don't want to offend management personnel) from the game and return to our Rounders roots.

Description and rules of Rounders

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Well, since so many people who claim to be clean-minded Americans seem to be offended by anything that they can only derive as questionable if their 7yo mind was in the gutter, maybe we should just eliminate the terms "ball" and "strike" (don't want to offend management personnel) from the game and return to our Rounders roots.

Description and rules of Rounders

My mind has taken up permanent residence in the gutter. Proud of it, too.

These are probably the same people who take offense to the computing industry terms of "master" and "slave" when referring to IDE devices (CD/DVD drives, hard drives, etc.).

[SamG]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I will just hold up my left hand in a fist, then hold up my right with two fingers

Speaking as a fan, I don't understand how the left is the "balls" and the right is the "strikes". Even from the stands, I'm picturing how that looks to someone FACING the PU. From someone in that position, the strikes are on the left and the balls on the right... since you would verbally say balls then strikes, it looks wrong to me.

Did run into an PU at a couple tournaments this year who did it as a number... 1 & 2 was "twelve". 3 & 0 was "thirty". It was very distinctive. I just don't remember what he did for "no balls".

[umpirebob71]

I've been told that the reason we indicate how many strikes with the right hand is because we signal strike with the right hand. It makes sense to me.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Well, fortunately for me, I only do SP, so we have a 1-1 count that negates any of this.

You'd be amazed at the number of SP umpires in my area who ignore this fact and consider the count after the first pitch 1-0 or 0-1 when it's supposed to be 2-1 or 1-2.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

You'd be amazed at the number of SP umpires in my area who ignore this fact and consider the count after the first pitch 1-0 or 0-1 when it's supposed to be 2-1 or 1-2.

So there is never a walk or strikeout in their games?

[wadeintothem]

The current proper mechanic is "No balls two strikes"

You dont personalize it - "She has___ He has__"

You DO verbalize the balls when announcing the count.

So long as you dont personalize it, you shouldnt (at last 99% of the time) get the giggles people or offended people.



I do not prefer the way Atl steve does it... I consider that unnecessary verbiage.

Originally Posted by SamG

Did run into an PU at a couple tournaments this year who did it as a number... 1 & 2 was "twelve". 3 & 0 was "thirty". It was very distinctive. I just don't remember what he did for "no balls".

Admittedly I do this when talking to batter / catcher quickly giving the count to just them...for example sometimes the catcher just before the signal will ask the count and I'll quickly say "2 strikes/ you got twentytwo" or whatever" I wouldnt announce the count that way though.