2020, anyone?
 

Well, looks like Softball was not reinstated by the IOC Executive Board for the 2016 Games. Maybe 2020?

Tough decision.

But maybe ASA will pull its head out now and pay attention to the slow pitch game after ignoring it for years.....

I'm... not sure what that has to do with the Olympics, but okay... :)

ASA was a HUGE part of the push for olympic softball, and IMHO has been overselling FP at the expense of SP for YEARS.....

Hope that clears it up.

Gotcha... Well, what would you change about SP? :)

The VERY first thing I would do would be to get local programs more organized/standardized. If SP was as organized as JO F.P. on the local levels, I think there would be a LOT mor.e participation. In some areas, NSA and USSSA are running ASA into the ground....

BTW..youre doing an adequate job in that other forum....

Adequate job of what? Running it into the ground? Or holding my ground? :)

Oh please, that is bs.

That is the same BS the FP is stating.

And Gold FP, has BIG problem.

ASA has now lost just about every good gold team out there, including the defending champs. None will be playing ASA championship play next year. They will not be playing and the list grows. The defending champs with the best pitcher Gold has seen probably since abbott, finch, or osterman will not be in OKC next year. Hows that feel to umps who work gold? The coach himself has posted and confirmed it.

18G OKC may well look like a 16 Eastern Nationals in skill level.

ASA may need to pull its head out about a lot of things... because the "elite league" the gold coaches have formed is not looking good for ASA IMO.

The olympics are lost.

Mens FP has been lost awhile.

I dont know the answer, but I hope its found, because ASA is losing a lot of its strengths.
If the answer is "slow pitch".. well I may need to go elsewhere. Because I dont enjoy the smell of stale beer and rotten hot dog.

Please post a link to this.

Gary Haning is leading the charge, but Phil Mumma has confirm Sorcerers will not be defending their title. The list of teams is actually pretty awesome. A big part of me thinks its doomed for failure long term, but OKC is not looking good for next year for sure.

HeyBucket.com - View topic - Information about Premier Fastpitch Girls Softball

Wade,

What is all this? Where are they going?

Why? Why are they down on 18G?

Context please. We just had umps come from National tourneys, not regional nats, and the number of teams were astronomical as they put it.

Thanks.

At first I thought it was a power play by whiney so cal folks whimpering about the heat, to force ASA to do something.. basically a goof. Then Phil pposted. Anyone who knows Phil knows hes a no BS type guy; I dont know that I've ever seen him make a joke ever... not to mention he is Nor Cal... so now I dunno.

Basically, they are IMO whinining about location of gold (because OKC apparently sucks), length of tourney (I agree 64 teams / 9 days is way too long), most of all - college players in gold (I didnt know this was a problem, a big complaint about Phil's teams before were he has so many college players)..

Anyway.. ASA and their USA program and the Gold Program as suffering big hits IMO. To sit around talking about slow pitch and sending commitees around asking what people want in slow pitch show either their priorities or off or they just aint paying attention -- or perhaps their Priority is on SP and exactly where they want it to be. If thats the case, they open the door for others.

If Walmart offers (to it's customer base) a perceived better product...a more convenient product...with more perceived value..and a lesser overall price... with better perceived customer service.....than Target does......I am shopping Walmart!!


We will have to wait and see if Target and Walmart can stay in business??

Go ahead. I wouldn't walk across the street to spit on a Walmart regardless of the price. Oh, and BTW, they don't give a **** about you or anyone else.

The SoCal self-declared Gods of softball are pissed that ASA will not exclude eligible players who are in college from participating in ASA softball.

And why, do you ask? Because of the idiots', and yes, I said idiots', perception that this individual is taking up another player's chance to get a scholarship.

So, these people have decided they are going to have a Premier National that will include the "best teams in softball" that will exclude any player that cannot produce a valid HS ID or proof of being still home-schooled.

IOW, another ****ing showcase tournament as if there are not enough of them already. The idiots cannot get it through their thick, smog-shrouded heads that part of ASA's mission as the NGB is to provide the path to and crown a national champion. God forbid teams actually play to win as a team and not for the personal advancement of the individual. But, then again, we are probably talking about the same people who believe EVERY participant should get some sort of award just for participating so no one's fellings get hurt.

Ive never been a part of the voting process, but I am interested in their complaints. They argue that they have been making these demands for years, but essentially the slow pitch guys /people not involved in FP essentially shut them down with their voting block.

Can that be true?

Have the desires of the people playing this game been ignored?

Its their game... who is a slow pitch person (not you Mike, just in general) to tell them them college players are accepted in JO play when they dont want them there?

I'm sure ASA wants to use their nice stadium, but that is some pretty crappy conditions they are explaining.

And who the hell can't think up a better way to run a 64 team double elim w/ 2 pooll plays in less than 9 days?


Or is this just new whining they are making up off the cuff. We are talking real money and issues and if these are their gripes, as heads of gold teams, should they have some standing in the process?

Be sure, I'm not arguing for or against - but just a few years ago we sent people around to ask beer league dudes how they wanted their game.

Is FP not worth the same courtesy?


There is a lot of anger at ASA right now, and it shouldnt be that way. We all care a great deal for this sport and IMO, there are some losses being taken and some mitigation needs to take place.

Their perception is out of whack with the truth on their primary complaint. The issue of college players playing in A and Gold has never made it out of the JO Committee with a recommendation to approve; that committee is made up exclusively of those charged with running the JO fastpitch program. They just don't get that the 18 Gold National isn't simply a recruiting venue; anyone age eligible is eligible!!

The issue of OKC's climate is true; it is also true of more than 80% of the USA the first week in August. The issue of the length of tournament is true; and will remain true until more fields are built. You simply can't run a double elim plus two pool games tournament efficiently on 4 fields, even when you use outside fields for pool games. It takes 8 fields to do it efficiently, and the HOF Complex only has 4.

Every year, the JO Committee charges the ASA National Office Reps with finding out what the teams want; every year they tell them. That doesn't mean what they want is what is best for the game, or what is best for ASA. Their own JO people understand that ASA isn't running an exclusionary National Championship. Or should there be no high school players at the 14A, if they are in high school, they must play 16A or up?

Obviously...the Gold Coaches feel differently than you do!!

They are a different breed...their "business" is getting kids recruited...(and the college coaches "business" is recruiting the best recruitable players...not watching the "supposed best teams" play for a National Championship) regardless of whether you or I or anyone else agree with their philosophy...it is the monster it is!!

Oh, and BTW, I don't expect anyone to give a **** about me or anyone else.
Some do...some don't for various reasons... that's OK!!

Thanks for the clarification, Steve, I kinda thought that something like that went on. The whole thing rang of whiney so cal coach sniveling, which everyone knows can be quite boistrous. Its still concerning a little.

It will be interesting to watch this latest So Cal drama unfold. I'm sure the meeting will have a different flavor and tone this year lol!

Maybe they need to move the tourney until they have the correct facilities.

I think he was making an analogy...

....So was I !!!!

IIRC, the Gold division came out of similar whining about the 18U A division.

BTW, Steve's comments point out that there are two things that are a problem with the OKC facility for running a large national tournament: climate and size of the facility. ASA may not be able to do much about the climate (maybe hold the tournament in San Diego and see how they like THAT climate in August...), but if the facility is too small, they should not continue to try to force fit it. Work a deal with some other fields in the area (upgrading them to ASA Championship standards if need be), or build more fields. But, it would appear those complaining do have a point if they are trying to hold a 64 team DE tournament with pool play on 4 fields.

I understand they have an agenda. It IS exploited and nearly mythical at times. There are not enough scholarships available to accommodate all the promises or claims made.

My point is that ASA is not a clearing house for college recruits. However, they go out of their way to accommodate the teams, players and coaches in providing schedules, exclusive access to some data and constant flow of up to the game status.

But in the long run, their mission is to promote and advance the sport of softball for all, not just those vying for a scholarship.

I agree with you....and so do the Gold coaches!

So uhh... How 'bout them Olympics?

The olympics are lame.

wade, do you need a hug? :)

You know, it might not be so bad to have so cal have their own "I dont wanna travel or go in the heat wah wah" league.

Sure will be a lot less sniveling at nats. :D

I don't think Phil or any of the other Nor Cal Gold coaches committed to this tournament (or the others throughout the nation for that matter) would appreciate you lumping them in that catagory?

I'm sure he makes you quiver in your pants.. but thats not me. I respect him as a coach and when Stings pitcher joined Sorcerers I knew and posted they were the team to beat. I also have a lot of respect for Kim and the way she coaches and calls the defensive game.

But they have a chosen path. We'll just have to see how it goes. Obviously, ASA goes on... ASA wont curl up in a ball because a few teams left. There are plenty of teams.

This is not the end of the world. Hopefully ASA takes the opportunity to improve some things, and HOPEFULLy bring some back - but for the rest, nothing can be done about them and no crying over spilt milk. At this point, they are spilled milk.

The representation was a bunch of SP /non JO guys was forcing college players on JO ball.. when apparently, it never even left their own committee.

I'm afraid this is on them, in the end.

Yet, most of the coaches I talk to WANT to see the kids playing in a highly competitive atmosphere where everything is on the line, not just going through the motions to demonstrate their talent.

These coaches see and hear enough from the friendlies and showcases and are inundated with CD's and resumes long before nationals come around. When these coaches come to ASA nationals, mant (if not most) know who they going to be watching before they even get to town. If a coach happens to notice another player, that is just icing on the cake, but most of the better players are already in contention or have been contacted.

And that is the attitude that keeps Walmart in business. This type of company is target (you, not the store) oriented. They prey on lower income communities with lower-quality merchandise.

You are the consumer, you should expect a business to care.

The recruiting thing is BS. 95 % of their players are verballed, signed, or in college by nats. If you watched on the internet feed it listed their college. I think I saw one player who didnt have a college listed.

You dig deep into just about any thing and the answer is money.

I would bet it is OKC's horrible facilities fed by the expense of those horrible conditions and the length of being at those facilities that is fueling this big time. Many have to take nearly two weeks off work to go sit around bored in OKC. This is a thing thats bugging them.

Secondary is the college players. A few have been wanting them apparently removed. This may be the case, as is so often true in this country, of the few outshouting the many, and maybe ASA will act on that, I dont know.

Recruiting at nats.. mostly nonfactor in reality.

Here's an idea for JO Nats to reduce sniveling:

Send the teams to one location to play, but tell all the parents that they are playing on the other side of the country! :eek:

But then they would miss the family vacation experience they insist should be part of the national tournament.:D

Couple of years ago they had 2 or 3 complexes going for Gold nationals and it was basically a 3 day tournament. Not sure why they cut back to just the main complex, but would have to agree that dragging it out over 8 days was a little much.

As for the heat, its August in the middle of summer. Most places in the US are going to be hot, we arent all in southern CA. Heck, Souix Falls, SD was hot in August and Owensboro was even worse than OKC.

There is a plan to increase the number of fields by at least two, but maybe more (4?). I think they may be waiting on another city bond which is expected (if not already) to be approved.

I think its just money. People from CA cant just rent a car an go home after they lose in okc its a lot of real money to qualify and go to these events. I remember one time a coach said "you know, that cost me 15K".. so money is real and I think perhaps those doing the gold have kind of been forgetting about that.
Plus that useless ACE program and these things keep adding up.
Plus confiscating $1000's worth of the favorite bat.

I do think maybe ASA's voting body might need to rethink a little.

Personally I dont see this thing lasting very well or doing very well. The concept of a "good ole boys" tourney seems doomed. But that doesnt mean they dont have valid points. It also dont mean that if it goes through, next years gold will be pretty weak.

His surf city show cases are ok, but you dont hear about them even like you hear about fireworks. Its just a so cal thing with so cal umps and a few nor cal guys go down there. All the good teams go. Not sure what Phil G will be reacting, but that might be another factor.

The complaint about college players is legit.

College softball is a professional level sport. Most players are shocked when they get there. The regimen is NOTHING like high school, NOTHING like travel ball.

These players are up at 5:30am for conditioning, and practice in the AM before classes at 9. After classes at 4pm, which are scheduled around softball, they spend another 5 hours on practices, training and more conditioning, etc. They get back to their rooms at 1030pm to do their homework, then they get up at 530am the next day and do it again. They are are spending the entire school year with 6 to 8 hours EVERY DAY working on softball.

Using the 14-u analogy with high school is absurd. College players are are not "students" they are "employees". Paid to play. Coaches get paid to win, not just games, but NCAA Regionals, Super Regionals and the WCWS.

True, many players at Gold Nats are committed, signed, etc. But then why do so many college coaches attend Gold Nats? They are there to see players. They want to see them on a level playing field; not against the hired guns that come back that are head and shoulders above the AMATEUR players. After all, it is the Amateur Softball Association.

And why does ASA charge them $100 for the book?

There are coaches bring in the hired guns so that they can WIN a Nationals for the purpose of recruiting players in subsequent seasons. Why? Because ASA has declared them as eligible.

Some argue that by keeping the college players as eligible allows college coaches to see these players actually play against college players. The flaw in this thinking is that the college players are evenly distributed across all the teams, and that all players are equally challenged. Bull hockey!

College coaches want to see these players in their own element and how these players stack up against the rest of the field, not against college players.

To use the "straw man" that ASA exists ONLY to be the NGB, and that college recruiting is not a concern of the ASA, is a weak excuse to ignore significant issues that detract from the integrity of the JO program.

To say that this current effort is simply another "likely to fail" effort like the others that make up the alphabet soup, is excessively arrogant and turning a deaf ear to what the elite players are working for, even at 10-U.

To say that these coaches are "whining" clearly demonstrates the unwillingness of the ASA to listen to its registered members. Like the CEO's of many failed companies who said, "To hell with what the customers are saying, they don't know anything about what they REALLY want in a product. They'll be back, heh, heh." I worked for a company like that once and yes the customers did come back and they said, "All right, where do I sign this damned thing?" It worked for a while, but one day, POOF they were gone.

"College" is more than top 25 Div I.

Yes it is. And what I wrote includes 100's of "colleges" in all Divisions.

If you were referring to a showcase, you are correct. Otherwise, I don't think so.

The players do NOT receive legal tender. They cannot spend, barter or trade their scholarship for goods or services of any type. They are offered the opportunity to attend a particular school for a particular period of time in exchange for their services as a recruiting tool.

And, again, they are not being paid. If they were, they would not qualify to to play in the NCAA. Yes, they are already in the NCAA, but eligibility requirements do not cease once in school. If anything, requirements and restrictions are more stringent.

Coaches go to see players on a predetermined list at a high level of competition. If teams having college players is such a bad thing, then you have to ask yourself why the coaches continue to come? Are they that stupid? I don't think so, but as I have noted previously, the coaches with whom I have spoken prefer to see their prospects under stress and where else can you get a more stressful and competitive situation for a player than at an ASA National tournament against the best.

Oh, I don't know, to cover the cost?

Not true, ASA makes no such declaration. The player simply enjoys the same eligibility afforded EVERY female in the country who meets the specific requirments set forth in the code and AFA JO ball, none refer to any particular instituion, educational or otherwise.

So if the college coaches are against this, why do they allow their players to participate?

Hey, Mr. Pot, ever meet Mr. Kettle?

This is almost as absurd as some of your arguments guised as an umpire.

Again, ASA's job is to promote the game of softball to ALL, not just those hoping for an education which is so far from free AAA couldn't get you there.. It is also to provide a path for determining a national champion, developing and assembling a national team to represent the USA.

But, as usual, no one is willing to own up to the fact that the people in control of the entire situation are................ready.................think you can handle this Tony?............................................. ............the coaches!

If the college coaches don't want them to play in the 18U anything, all they have to do is say the word. Period! How many college players are going to participate at any level after their coaches instructed them to not and well aware that the coach WILL find out and pull the scholarship?

Sorry, Tony, but Straw Man is on your roster.

Large time commitment, sure, but "employees"? "paid to play"? BS.

I can see both sides of the issue. My daughter played for some pretty crazy club ball coaches, but none of them come even close to the workouts she does in college. At most, club ball practiced 3 times a week, college is usually 6 days a week plus weight lifting, conditioning etc. And when they arent practicing, they are out fund raising.

Are they paid? Not in cash, but they are exchanging playing softball for an education any other student would have to pay some amount of money for. Some colleges are $30k+ per year.

ASA does not allow players to drop skill levels once they have played in qualifiers. An 18 gold player can not drop to 18's, and a 16 player that has played up in 18's can not drop back to 16's. I would tend to argue that a lot of college programs are a level above gold. Are they all? Not even close, but where do you draw the line?

As always, Mike, the role model of guised professionals everywhere.

Personnally, I find this a coaches issue, which is why I find it ironic that for what is allegedly such an all important issue all of a sudden, it has never made it out of their own JO committee.. I could careless if college players play or not, if they dont want em, get rid of em.


At any rate, we are WAY over stating these college players. The ones playing gold are freshman, usually with little playing time, and most are on a 25% +/- ride. Only a very few elite pitchers and VERY VERY few others are 100% free ride.

Lets not over state reality.

Not true. Teams are classified, not players (in JO). A 16yo can always play in that age bracket regardless of the level played the previous season.

IOW, a JO player whose team participated in this years 18U Gold can play on a 16U team next year if still age eligible. Likely? Depends on the player, parents and maybe even available resources, but completely legal.

Apparently this really SIMPLE system is beyond the grasp of many people. The player's ability to join the roster of any particular team is based solely on the player's birth date.

Tony,
My DD's experience (four years at a top-tier DII) isn't at all representative of your generalizations.

Then they are in violation of NCAA eligibility rules and the NFCA Code of Ethics.

Hell, we just as well ask the DOJ for a full scale investigation and shut own the entire program since, according to you, they are all cheating and in violation.

NCAA puts a maximum of 20 mandatory hours per week. Coaches and AD's know how to play the game. This is where it breaks down. You get a scholarship, and only put in the mandatory, and you are GONE!

This is not news. The NCAA knows EXACTLY what is going on, and puts on the game face, which is where the farce of denial begins.

I am not going to take the bait as to the definition of "cheating" there are several threads on this board and others that never end. They are not in violation because the other 60 hours per week are published as "non-mandatory".

We don't need the DOJ to close down the program, but an honest and simple investigation by the ASA should be very revealing.

Larry, I respect that and I believe what you wrote.
While my position is one of generalizations, but I did not even come close to saying it was at 100% across the board. I believe by saying that "100's of colleges" do this, that I am in the "grossly under-estimated" category.

And why should the ASA investigate anything, they are not the one's with a complaint. Come to think of it, neither are the college coaches or players.

It seems, the only ones that seem to have a problem are those who rely upon selling their services and the parents who buy into them.

Hmmmm......

Remarkable at .. how sudden this issue... became an issue... all of a sudden.

Let's see. That's right, the ASA is not in the investigation business...we know that is not true. One example is bats, another is balls, age cut offs, and dozens others. What has any of that got to do with anything except declaring a National Championship?

Why should they look into this? Because it is negatively and severely impacting the ASA Gold program.
Why wouldn't they look into it, instead of just being argumentative?

If a study was done, it would prove or disprove any hypothesis and end this issue which has been an on-going controversy for over 10 years.

OK, I'm not always a big supporter of ASA.
But where does setting a standard mean the same thing as investingating potential infractions?

Are you implying that ASA sets the standards without first investigating?
That could explain a lot.

Who is this "they" of whom you speak? It is easy to speak of "ASA" as some monolith of power over softball, but in reality it is nothing more than the people who meet and vote on such things. If I read the earlier posts correctly, this issue has never been reported out of the JO committee. I would seem, as with Pogo, the JO coaches have met the enemy, and it is them...

Uh, ASA.

Let's see . . . the National Governing Body of Softball? Oh, you are right, they are nothing more than USSSA, USFA, ISA, LL, Pony, and the LSOTPHFCCSA (that is, the Little Sisters of the Poor Home for Crippled Children's Softball Association)


Nice try with the Pogo comparison. At the 2001 Gold Nationals, in Marietta, GA at the coaches meeting the question was asked, "Should college players be allowed?", It looked like every coach voted NO, as I did not see one hand go up in the affirmative. But we still have the status quo. So much for listening up.

Like Pogo, you are living in a cartoon world, where reality is often imitated, but reality is often denied.

Yes, the status quo was kept by the same coaches you seem to be citing 8 years later. Of course, you are providing one-sided, incomplete data. I would be curous as to how many of those coaches had college ball players on their roster.

Again, proving the MY point that if the 18U coaches did not recruit and roster college players there would be no college players in 18U.

How many different ways can you take this without it coming back to the coaches?

Study: College athletes are full-time workers
Read the full story:
Study: College athletes are full-time workers - USATODAY.com

What? I would be curious to know how many of the Gold coaches in attendance and voting are on the JO Committee. I don't remember her name, but it was the National JO Commissioner at the time, Patty? Cindy?

How does a unanimous vote not get out of Committee?

Rule #1 of Military Strategy: No matter what the outcome, declare victory. Good grief sir, how can you be that far off?

I only need one lucid thought from you, Until then....about as many as you can try to manufacture.

Oh, wait a minute, this changes everything............NOT!

BFD, an 18 month old article in the USAToday that does nothing more than state that the student-athlete works outside the team structure voluntarily, just as is done in HS and travel ball, just not to the same extreme unless a private prep school which specializes in a particular sport.

But it still has absolutely NOTHING to do with an 18yo playing on an 18U team.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...wmanPoster.jpg

OK, name some names.... WHO are these evil people? ASA is not a monolith (that would be a single massive whole in case you're missing the analogy), but a collection of people organized into differing roles and responsibilities. The people who make and continue to make this incredibly stupid decision to have eligibility to play at 18U be decided by, oh, what... oh, yeah... AGE... are the same people who actually coaching, etc., the JO game. Yet, it keeps being blamed on the big, bad, ASA. I guess that makes it easier to blame slow pitch instead of their own colleagues in JO fastpitch.

Whether or not it is unfair to have college freshmen playing in the same age division as HS seniors is a question for the JO people to work out for themselves.

Oh, that's right, that is who IS making these decisions.

But it is easier to rail against the faceless ASA.

This is also true of baseball where a teams get less than 12 scholarships to cover the entire roster. You make a good point and I wonder how many softball players see the full rides being given out in football and basketball and think that's what they will get as well.

Well, like you said, that was 8 years ago, so you'd have to go back and track them all down to find out how many of them were on the committee. All I really know about the behind the scenes work of ASA is what I read from Mike and others here, but it seems like this issue was/is a big deal to a lot of coaches. Okay, haven't these coaches been around long enough to know who is in a position to present their concerns to ASA? If so, why didn't enough coaches talk to members of the committee about the changes they would like to see?

Or to use an analogy: If I don't like the quality of my association's training, complaining about it to some buddies is fine, but if I want the quality of training to improve I know which officers I need to give my feedback to. Do the coaches really not know who to talk to in their situation?

OK, you win. Glad to have this all in writing,

Well thank you, Wade. You forget that the softball-world is bigger than just the all-mighty-US of A!
Thousands softball-playing girls, outside the USA, have their dreams: Playing ball at the Olympics. Their dream, not the gold, just to play with and against the best at the largest tournament men has ever known. That dream has been struck.

Not only because your mr Easton, apparantly, didn't vote for Softball. It's also 'cause softball suffer from the good name MBL has given to baseball. It's 'cause the belgian frog loves to golf (Rugby7's should be Olympic as well, IMHO).
You may have a national problem with school-softball and the 18G-program. But please that's no reason, nor an answer for shutting the game out from the Olympics. The world is too large, to let your national problem be a global one.

I'm still dreaming about 2020! It would be great if my son could play 7's-rugby with the dutch national team, and his proud dad would be calling games in the softball-tournament! I know, it's not gonna happen. The dream itself is great!

In this "post-Maddoff" period, all we need is money! And in IMHO that is no-problem; we don't have any anymore!;)

Sander,

It isn't the U.S., but California folks who believe the softball world revolves around them. :rolleyes:

Don't waste your time. I've been telling people for years that there is a lot of softball in Europe and Asia and they act as if it cannot possibly be. Americans are pretty arrogant and ignorant, at times. ;) If they don't see it on TV or their computer, it does't exist.

Many are still living like an adolescent where parents didn't know crap, but your 12 year old buddy from down the street knew it all 'cause he was cool!:cool: Don't believe me? Just watch our political system at work :D

The olympics have turned themselves into a laughing stock, so convoluted with BS non sport sports like power walking, you cant even find a decent real sport to watch.. now even worse, Golf. Then they get rid of one of the few decent sports in the olympics - softball?!?!?! Probably the top in popularity in terms of a team in the US. (I dont know about Eurupe, its their votes that got rid of it, the idiot Easton only abstained)

The olympics are officially lame.

The olympics have turned themselves into a laughing stock, so convoluted with BS non sport sports like power walking, you cant even find a decent real sport to watch.. now even worse, Golf. Then they get rid of one of the few decent sports in the olympics - softball?!?!?! Probably the top in popularity in terms of a team in the US. (I dont know about its popularity Eurupe which you allude to, especially since its their votes that got rid of it, the idiot Easton only abstained)

The olympics are officially lame.

Hey, no padding your posts to get to 3,000. ;)

oops.. forgot the

+1

OK, what is so horrible about the facilities in OKC? Also there is tons of things to keep you busy in OKC, the Bricktown area with the Memorial is a two-three day venture to take it all in. Where do you get this information about the horrible facilities and nothing to do? Have you ever been to OKC?

Just curious.

Which, by reports, would get you about 1/3 of the way through pool play! :D Now what? ;)

:p

I used to think that about OKC, until I stayed there for more than two nights. There is a bundle to do there.

To start, I thought it was a SOFTBALL TOURNAMENT which usually revolves around the games, not entertaining boring people.

Yes, it probably should be shorter and that will probably happen sooner than later.

Actually, I have been to OKC quite a bit - but not for softball. 10 years ago I used to travel there to work on occasions. It was fairly boring. The Toby Keith bar and grill with the big guitar on the roof was cool.. however, My response was fed by the coaches and other umpires statement about the conditions and lack of facilities in OKC.

Obviously, at this point and time inadequate to host a big tourney.

If its so great, why is the top 20 +/- gold teams, including returning champs, in LA next year?

I would bet it is MOSTLY the expense and conditions of OKC. They'll go be happy with nice weather, great facilities in L.A. while the 18B's are in OKC.

The rest of the stuff just irratates them (like ACE) - but the money and conditions of OKC are obviously not what these coaches are looking for.



Hopefully this is a one year deal though and the ASA Voting bodies wake up on this issue and take action.

Wade,

Is this a done deal? signed, sealed and delivered?

Yep, another boring showcase.

BTW, the OKC area is quite inexpensive

Lets remember also.. these coaches are trying to keep occupied a flock of 18 y/o girls..

Anything us old dudes might enjoy, like some memorial, just wont fly.

They are playing one game and maybe even none in a single day over a period of 9 freakin days. Thats a lot of down time. I guess we can say "well lump it, its a tourney" .. it seems the coaches have developed a response.

The statements about the "conditions and lack of facilities in OKC" is bogus. Plenty of big parks around the metro area to handle this. Boomer Softball complex is close to HOF to just name one. The costs of food, hotel, and entertainment in OKC are minimal.

I would suggest you get to OKC and spend some time there and form your own opinion. Don't take the "coaches and other umpires" word for it.

I have had the pleasure of calling on Field 1 at HOF Stadium on several occassions. There isn't anything like umpiring on that field. The hair on your neck stands up when you walk out there and you look around and think about the people who have played and umpired there before.

This, the 18 Gold, will probably be the only time most of those girls get the chance to play on that field.

Personally, I can't think of a better place, with that much history, to play the 18 Gold.

If they can't take the heat of Oklahoma in August, they don't need to be playing softball!

My opinion doesnt mean squat and if you could read at all, you would see I was repeating the claims of coaches. I would LOVE to call in the stadium and it fact its my goal to do so.

These teams, including the current 18G champs, will NOT be in OKC next year and do not agree with your glowing assessment. More are surely to be announced.


Sorcerer Gold
Gold Coast Hurricanes
Worth Firecrackers
So Cal Choppers
Corona Angels Marty
So Cal Athletics
Valley Breeze
Georgia Elite
East Cobb Bullets
Texas Storm Demarini
So Cal Pumas
Cal Cruisers
AZ Hot Shots Gatti
Wichita Mustangs
Beverly Bandits
So Illinois Force
Texas Impact Gold
Virginia Shamrocks
Texas Glory
OC Batbusters
Texas Eclipse
New Jersey Intensity
New Jersey Inferno
New Jersey Breakers


As to your statement about "they shouldnt be playing softball" - they will be, just not in OKC.

Hopefully, and I'm sure, the voting body does not ALL have the same opinion you do.

Read the names a couple of times if you need too, becuase thats a whos who of gold.

And Holloway, this game isnt about you and the hairs on your neck. its about the players on those teams. You just call.

And where did I say it was about me? Don't think I did, I was just trying to say it is an experience that EVERYONE (players and umpires) should get to experience. I hope you make it there someday Wade, it is a great experience. One of my goals is to get selected to the 18 Gold as well Maybe we can JUST CALL together. Sorry you took my post personal, wasn't meant to be.

Once again, I would like to know what the "gripe" is about the costs in OKC and the facilities in OKC? Sure it's hot here in August but we can't control that. I made the statement about the heat because in late May and early June (WCWS time which is what all these girls are striving for) it is hot too in OKC!!!

I think ASA can and will make the changes to effectively make that league useless, but they gotta listen.

Obviously Gary is feeding off the anger. It only benefits him really to have this tourney under his little "realm". The rest just want a good tourney, and they dont feel like they are getting it in OKC with ASA so they are going to go there next year.

So if ASA adjusts, they'll come back.

There are other tourney orgs in CA doing similar things. They get 100's of teams in these showcases and they have a lot of money and influence to do things.

ASA just needs to not get so bogged down within itself.


I would say ASA should rethink ACE, rethink regs that are having 1,000's of the most popular bats confiscated, 9 day 64 team tourneys on only a few fields, and these other things that are happening that are costing these people real money and they are reacting to it. Charging the college coaches is lame.


Times are tough on the ole wallet, so Gary is striking now.


Plus the college player issue - the college players gotta go.l
Semper Gumby
Always flexible.

Some times you gotta adjust fire.

And I hope to call with you in the Gold in that Stadium too!

What is ACE?

It is a card, four of fifty-two in a deck. Each has a single shape in the center and an "A" in two corners.


Oh, you mean in ASA softball :D

http://www.asasoftball.com/youth/certification.asp

It was originally required of all coaches and dugout personnel were required to take. Then it was required of at least one adult in the dugout.

From what I understand, ASA pretty much backed off it altogether by the end of the year.

A lot of top teams have committed to play in Hannings tournament, but will be interesting to see what really happens. Have already heard talk that some of those top teams are just going to have 2 teams, one that goes to OKC, the other that goes to Hannings. Which tournament gets the A team and which one the B will have to wait and see.

Vienna shamrocks is on that list but they did not even qualify this year. First time in 22 years. So, how do teams get to the Gold tourney? I thought it was by winning or placing in a qualifier. All those team listed by Wade can not qualify every year. Does not seem possible.

The ACE coaches program includes some education aspects, a $5M liability policy, a criminal background check, and was pushed as a response to ASA's insurance carrier suggesting some of these programs as a risk managemnet program.

The teams have had some concern about the cost of registration (which includes insurance); ASA pushed the ACE program to educate and insure the coaches, while protecting the players from predator adults and attempting to hold the costs of registration/insurance. Since it wasn't presented that way, the coaches decided (as they almost always conclude) that ASA did it to make money.

So far as I am aware, there is almost zero positive cash flow from requiring ACE certification of coaches in the youth programs; the cost benefits were to hold the line on future insurance premium increases.

Wade, I won't be logging in as a user on heybucket, although I do read it from time to time, so feel free to pass this perspective to the coaches. IMO, it is a red herring, anyway, as is the college player issue (SPY listed 97 college participants out of more than 1000 overall; 64 teams with 15-20 roster players).

IMO, the positives are really only to the SoCal teams; they can get more teams in, while staying at home. The East Coast (and probably most nonCal) teams will actually pay more to participate in the Premiere; but they are convinced that they need to rebel, that ASA doesn't listen to them, (and mostly, that they won't be accepted into the OTHER showcases they want to be in, like the Champions Cup, if they don't buy into this). Flights into OKC aren't cheap; LAX is certainly better. But I seriously doubt hotels, restaurants, rental cars, and "the other things to do" are cheaper in Huntingdon Beach, CA, than OKC!!

He has a lot of weak arguments..

The fences.. he was whimpering about the humidity early on.

He mr talking point right now. He thinks he will be next king of earth. They are even calling him Mr. Hanning now lol :rolleyes: a month ago he was and always has been "gary".

They are like sheep. Fairly amusing. I got a new term for it.. "the gary messiah" :D

There's a lot of that going around these days...

He was complaining about the fences in OKC? I dont ever remember there being a fence up at any of his tournaments that my duaghter played in.

If a team attends his premier tournament, wonder if they will be required as in his other tournaments to book a certain number of hotel rooms from the approved hotels on his list? By the way, if you dont, no more invitations to his tournaments.

What in the name of Bill Plummer could be the problem with the fences?

Champions Cup is run by SoCal ASA and there is a competing Showcase Tournament that same weekend.

College coaches flock to these "boring" showcases!!

Just my opinion...be careful guys...ignorance is bliss!!

WHY did she bother to play in them then?

Hanning was upset that his team practiced on 200' fields and then got to nationals to find 225' fields.

OK..so...why did it change with out the Gold coaches knowing? Cause the World Cup was played at 225..and ASA couldn't find the energy to change them to what they were previously?

Wonder why the Gold coaches are frustrated??

I guess more specifically...why did your daughters team play??

If there were no fences...and they were required to stay in a certain hotel??

They could have played anywhere else.....

nothing was changed without them knowing. its in the rule book.

Exactely.....they made a change from the year before...but thought that because it was "classified" under or burried in ..the rule book...no one would notice or care or everyone would see?? Can you see how it could concern a customer??