Co-Ed Slow Pitch

[DeputyUICHousto]

Rules state defense must have 2 men and two women in both the infield and the outfield and a M/F Battery. When a man comes to bat, can the shortstop play 25' out onto the grass in shallow left field?

[AtlUmpSteve]

ASA defines the infield as the area normally covered by an infielder, and the outfield as the area normally covered by the outfielders. Those definitions keep coed defenses from playing 5 infielders, or 5 outfielders; but they don't reference "the grass".

Do infielders often play on the grass? With a big LH hitter, you can betcha the 2B will be out on the grass. If they played "normal" defense, and a flare was hit to that spot 25' out into the grass, who would you expect to catch it (if it was catchable)?

If your answer is that it would be shortstop's ball, and that an infielder can play in the grass, then you have answered that this is the area normally covered by an infielder. If it is so far out that you judge it would the outfielder's ball to catch, then it is an area normally covered by an outfielder. Can't tell you at what exact distance the field changes, but the umpire has to make that call based on those factors. The ASA definitions are clearly intended to allow judgment as to what is acceptable, and not rely on where the grass starts (if it starts or ends).

[NCASAUmp]

There are two major towns where our crew calls. In one municipality, the grass starts pretty quickly behind the bases, maybe 20 feet behind 2B. In the other, it's more like 30 to 35 feet. While ASA does have a diagram in Rule 2 that prescribes how a skinned infield should be constructed, it's rarely ever followed by the towns.

So, if there's no consistency, the only option is to be reasonable. At the second municipality, I keep the outfielders out on the grass. I realize I have no justification in making the grass the demarcation line, but when I remind them that they're an outfielder and that they must have 2+2 in the outfield, the lightbulb goes off in their heads that they're not where they should be.

Remember, the rules are for championship play, not local rec league. In rec league, they come in pretty close for the weaker hitters. At an actual tourney, they won't come in so shallow, because the calibre of players tends to be higher.

On a related note, just called a State Coed tourney this weekend, and have the umpire's tan to prove it. "What is the umpire's tan," you ask? It's the raccoon effect you get from wearing your sunglasses all day.

[gumpire]

In our local league, we have a "Co-ed" line. No outfielder is allowed to be in front of the line until the ball is contacted when a female batter is up.
In many cases, I have had shortstops move back and onto the grass....in these cases I do not allow it, I use the grass line as the distinction between infield and outfield.
However, this causes quite the uproar when I call an IFR on a hit ball that lands 3-5 feet into the grass!

Also, we allow all male or all female in/outfields as long as the number of male & female is even. (i.e., 4 females, 4 males. 5 females, 5 males, etc.) What makes this strange and sometimes difficult, is when a team shows up with only 9 players!!! Most of the time it's not a big deal, but once in awhile the opposing team will try to get me to make a player sit out to keep the "even number" of both genders in effect.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

ASA defines the infield as the area normally covered by an infielder, and the outfield as the area normally covered by the outfielders. Those definitions keep coed defenses from playing 5 infielders, or 5 outfielders; but they don't reference "the grass".

Do infielders often play on the grass? With a big LH hitter, you can betcha the 2B will be out on the grass. If they played "normal" defense, and a flare was hit to that spot 25' out into the grass, who would you expect to catch it (if it was catchable)?

If your answer is that it would be shortstop's ball, and that an infielder can play in the grass, then you have answered that this is the area normally covered by an infielder. If it is so far out that you judge it would the outfielder's ball to catch, then it is an area normally covered by an outfielder. Can't tell you at what exact distance the field changes, but the umpire has to make that call based on those factors. The ASA definitions are clearly intended to allow judgment as to what is acceptable, and not rely on where the grass starts (if it starts or ends).

Agree, in principle. However, defensive positioning is usually determined prior to a pitch, not after a ball has been put into play.

My "judgment" is usually based upon the location of the infielders as it relates to their neighbor. If F4 and F3 are both "deep" in the infield or the same with F5 and F6, etc. no problems with the positioning. However, if 3 of the 4 infielders are relatively close to the baseline or any other demarcation you reference and the fourth is obviously not in the same general area as it relates to the rest of the infielders, I'm bringing that player closer to his/her fellow infielders prior to proceeding.

Again, it must be obvious, not "just outside" the relative area.

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

On a related note, just called a State Coed tourney this weekend, and have the umpire's tan to prove it. "What is the umpire's tan," you ask? It's the raccoon effect you get from wearing your sunglasses all day.

In our parts, you don't need to work a state tournament to end up with one of these. Just the all day long qualifiers will do it too. Speaking of which, sometimes just working enough league will do it too.