INT on a DP? - Page 5

steveshane67 · #61 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 21, 2009, 02:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

I'll piggyback onto this. This is not only true in baseball, but it will be true in football and basketball as well. Watch an NFL or college game this fall, and you'll see at times, they'll beckon someone from the back of the team (the 3 guys you see behind the defensive backfield) or the lineman opposite side into a huddle because that person may be an expert on the rule they need clarification on. My HS football crew does this all the time. We even do it in basketball when we work 3-whistle, and sometimes there's a crazy situation that needs discussing. It depends on the infraction or the situation at hand, there'll be someone on the crew who knows the rule better and is consulted before any penalty (if any) is handed down.

Take this example, in baseball, softball, LL... 2 man crew, runner on 1st, batter his a ground rule double, 1 ump awards the runner home. Now the other ump, knowing this is wrong, huddles with the other ump to discuss the situation. You guys call this conferring with a rules guru, I call it the other ump overturned a bad call by his partner. its 6 or a half dozen.

#62 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 21, 2009, 02:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Take this example, in baseball, softball, LL... 2 man crew, runner on 1st, batter his a ground rule double, 1 ump awards the runner home. Now the other ump, knowing this is wrong, huddles with the other ump to discuss the situation. You guys call this conferring with a rules guru, I call it the other ump overturned a bad call by his partner. its 6 or a half dozen.

Two totally different things. Conferring with a rules guru is getting it right through discussion. Overturning a call is getting it screwed up by egotisically sticking their a$$ in where it doesn't belong.

ronald · #63 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 21, 2009, 02:16pm

Steve,

I think it is time for you to try to become an umpire. Good luck.

wadeintothem · #64 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 21, 2009, 02:25pm

Hey, you know I had that happen last tourney - Daddy baller coaching moaning and groaning whole game - girl's momentum carried the ball into DB territory, I was BU. PU doesnt give an award, says it must be intentional.. so I start to mosey up there to perhaps assist... and the coach points at me face "And that call in the first inning was terrible." (banger at 1st which was out)

So the now abbreviated conversation got side tracked into how much longer he was going to be participating if he didnt stop his BS.. and I plum forgot all about his goofed up award.

Boy I hate distractions..

NCASAUmp · #65 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 21, 2009, 02:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Take this example, in baseball, softball, LL... 2 man crew, runner on 1st, batter his a ground rule double, 1 ump awards the runner home. Now the other ump, knowing this is wrong, huddles with the other ump to discuss the situation. You guys call this conferring with a rules guru, I call it the other ump overturned a bad call by his partner. its 6 or a half dozen.

No, no, no. This is not an umpire "overturning" someone else's call. This is an umpire who needs more information and seeks out on his own the perspective of his associate. However, no umpire should EVER seek out to change their associate's call, no matter how dead-a$$ wrong it is. To do so is overstepping your bounds, and it would only serve to throw said partner under the bus.

Oh, and furthermore... No.

NCASAUmp · #66 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 21, 2009, 02:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Please tell me when ive ever pissed and moaned about a rules question answer when "it's not the one I want"???

When? How about when you suggested (and keep insisting) that one umpire "overrules" another? It does not exist in softball. Period. End of story. I gave you the rule reference. Go read.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveshane67

And just a FYI, I ump (2nd year) for a local league that doesnt use "certified" ASA umps, and by everyones (players, coaches, league directors, other umps) am the best ump in the league (>200 teams across A-B-C-D levels). Quick anecdote, I play in this league as well and the commish doesnt have players ump the same level as they play in for conflict of interest reasons, but after my team was knocked out of the 1st round of the playoffs, a few of the remaining captains requested that I do their remaining playoff games bc they thought so highly of me (compared to the other umps) (and they know of my umping bc many play in more than 1 level)

I find umping is actually really easy, except in the rare instances when I have to watch 4 things at once.

Oh I've got to see this...

#67 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 21, 2009, 02:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Hey, you know I had that happen last tourney - Daddy baller coaching moaning and groaning whole game - girl's momentum carried the ball into DB territory, I was BU. PU doesnt give an award, says it must be intentional.. so I start to mosey up there to perhaps assist... and the coach points at me face "And that call in the first inning was terrible." (banger at 1st which was out)

So the now abbreviated conversation got side tracked into how much longer he was going to be participating if he didnt stop his BS.. and I plum forgot all about his goofed up award.

Boy I hate distractions..

Did you "reward" his distracting you with a trip to the parking lot?

NCASAUmp · #68 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 21, 2009, 03:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Did you "reward" his distracting you with a trip to the parking lot?

I'm soooo biting my lip on this one...

argodad · #69 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 21, 2009, 03:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Since that call was the PUs, someone had to overrule his foul ball call....

No, no, no. Nobody overruled him. They "offered him a veritable plethora of information that he did not previously have." He changed his own call.

Big Slick · #70 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 21, 2009, 03:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

What a minute, aren't you professional and make more than $44 a game?

I once worked a league that called itself "professional," and the pay was (only slightly) more than $44 a game.

I don't make anywhere close to that for sissy ball, er, I mean slow pitch.

SethPDX · #71 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 21, 2009, 03:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Is softball different than baseball in the fact the baseball umps will meet, discuss a "contested" play and make a "second" ruling? There was a play a few weeks ago, slow dribbler down the first base line, the pitcher or firstbaseman ran over, fielded the ball as their momentum carried then into foul territory. The PU ruled foul ball. The umps met after the OC argued (ball was hit too slow for the fast runner to be put out) and ruled fair ball and awarded the BR 1B. Since that call was the PUs, someone had to overrule his foul ball call....

Well, by now everyone reading this thread knows that was an MLB game you are talking about. As Dave said,

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I can't overstate this, but... This is NOT MLB.

MLB obviously feels differently from ASA about this

And Dave is right. If you had read and comprehended the thread we had about that play over on the baseball board you would know MLB has its own interpretations of OBR. You also would have noticed different umpires have differing viewpoints on changing foul to fair, and that it was the PU who changed his own call after taking the advice of his partners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Take this example, in baseball, softball, LL... 2 man crew, runner on 1st, batter his a ground rule double, 1 ump awards the runner home. Now the other ump, knowing this is wrong, huddles with the other ump to discuss the situation. You guys call this conferring with a rules guru, I call it the other ump overturned a bad call by his partner. its 6 or a half dozen.

Nobody overturned anything. One umpire reminded his partner of the rule, which he should have done, and the umpire who made the original call realized what the rule was and fixed it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveshane67

And just a FYI, I ump (2nd year) for a local league that doesnt use "certified" ASA umps, and by everyones (players, coaches, league directors, other umps) am the best ump in the league (>200 teams across A-B-C-D levels).

Great, gold star for you! And think of the money you saved not having to certify. I guarantee you there are other umpires here who are thought of as the best in their respective leagues, so you are in good company.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveshane67

I find umping is actually really easy, except in the rare instances when I have to watch 4 things at once.

Yeah, I hate when that happens. Happens at least once a game, too.

wadeintothem · #72 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 21, 2009, 03:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Did you "reward" his distracting you with a trip to the parking lot?

Oh hell no, that wasnt happening if that could be avoided. It was 106-108 and he was getting handled pretty well on an elimination game. He wasnt going anywhere. We were gonna enjoy the rest of this game together. But I sure made him think I was gonna send him.

If he knew how to coach he could have just asked my partner to confer with me, but he was just a jerk blowing steam and it cost him. Guess he'd rather be a jerk than a coach advocating for his team.

Big Slick · #73 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 21, 2009, 03:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Yes, I didnt remember exactly what happened on that specific play, basically I described it backwards, but the same philosophy still applied, so whats the big deal?? Did it really detract anything from the point of the discussion, no, so why argue over a moot issue?

First, it lends to your (lack of) credibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveshane67

And Im not the commish of the league, merely a player, players dont decide who umpires the games, the commish does

Don't players run the league? If you don't like the league, walk out? Does the commish "own" the fields? You can't talk to the commish?

NCASAUmp · #74 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 21, 2009, 03:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Slick

I once worked a league that called itself "professional," and the pay was (only slightly) more than $44 a game.

I don't make anywhere close to that for sissy ball, er, I mean slow pitch.

Hey now, Big Slick! You watch it there, mister!

Stat-Man · #75 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 21, 2009, 09:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Disclaimer: This is a general comment and not directed toward Stat-Man or anyone else on this board or otherwise.

Why do people think the "heat of the moment", "heat of the game", etc. is an excuse for any type of poor behavior on anyone's part whether it be the player, coach or official?

Disclaimer noted, IrishMafia.

On a personal note, this is something I've been trying to work on personally. I realize that I can't let my on-field/court competitiveness get the best of me because I know any bad actions on my part undo in an instant all I believe in terms of sportsmanship and civility.