INT on a DP?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Ha! Absolutely classical!

What? The whining? Or the absolute lack of knowledge when it comes to umpiring?

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

What? The whining? Or the absolute lack of knowledge when it comes to umpiring?

So was I wrong when I said that in a 2 man crew the BU has 1st and 2nd and not 3rd base???

Or was I wrong in saying the PU can override the BU???

please enlighten me, some of us are on here bc they dont know everything, and want to learn.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

So was I wrong when I said that in a 2 man crew the BU has 1st and 2nd and not 3rd base???

Yes and no. BU has 1B and 2B for out/safe calls, but tag-up responsibilities are another matter. No, BU does not have 3B for a tag-up. Yes, the PU screwed up.

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Or was I wrong in saying the PU can override the BU???

Actually, yes, you are dead wrong. This isn't tennis or volleyball where there's one official over all others. No umpire can set aside the judgment of another umpire when it's that other umpire's call. Did the PU screw up? Yes. Can he overrule another umpire? Hell no.

Originally Posted by steveshane67

please enlighten me, some of us are on here bc they dont know everything, and want to learn.

I'm starting to doubt that. All I'm hearing from you is b1tch, b1tch, b1tch.

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Actually, yes, you are dead wrong. This isn't tennis or volleyball where there's one official over all others. No umpire can set aside the judgment of another umpire when it's that other umpire's call. Did the PU screw up? Yes. Can he overrule another umpire? Hell no.

I'm starting to doubt that. All I'm hearing from you is b1tch, b1tch, b1tch.

Is softball different than baseball in the fact the baseball umps will meet, discuss a "contested" play and make a "second" ruling? There was a play a few weeks ago, slow dribbler down the first base line, the pitcher or firstbaseman ran over, fielded the ball as their momentum carried then into foul territory. The PU ruled foul ball. The umps met after the OC argued (ball was hit too slow for the fast runner to be put out) and ruled fair ball and awarded the BR 1B. Since that call was the PUs, someone had to overrule his foul ball call....

Im of the mindset that the umps job at the end of the day is to get the call right. Lets say in a 2 man crew, the BU calls a runner out when they were clearly clearly safe, then by all means the PU should step in and make the correct call. who cares if its not "his call" or hes not supposed to do that, I care about getting the calls right, not about the possibility of embarrassing or hurting the other umps feelings.

In the 2nd half of this thread Ive certainly been *****ing, but most of the time Im on here asking questions about the rules. And once again, I wouldnt be *****ing if the umps didnt have to go through a whole certification process. If they were just some random guys off the street that the commish knows, then thats understandable.

[Umpteenth]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

In the 2nd half of this thread Ive certainly been *****ing, but most of the time Im on here asking questions about the rules. And once again, I wouldnt be *****ing if the umps didnt have to go through a whole certification process. If they were just some random guys off the street that the commish knows, then thats understandable.

Perhaps you should take this up with the local umpire association. Sounds like there might be a problem. I don't think you're going to find the support you want here. I certainly would not throw my partner under the bus. Judgment calls are just that, someone's personal judgment. And you can't protest how someone else interpreted what they saw. You can protest application of a specific rule or rules if there is a problem. Certainly, brom your OP, the PU blew that call on the runner leaving early. If we were perfect in our line of work, we would certainly earn a lot more than $22 per game. I think you might have an isolated problem there that needs local help.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Is softball different than baseball in the fact the baseball umps will meet, discuss a "contested" play and make a "second" ruling? There was a play a few weeks ago, slow dribbler down the first base line, the pitcher or firstbaseman ran over, fielded the ball as their momentum carried then into foul territory. The PU ruled foul ball. The umps met after the OC argued (ball was hit too slow for the fast runner to be put out) and ruled fair ball and awarded the BR 1B. Since that call was the PUs, someone had to overrule his foul ball call....

Im of the mindset that the umps job at the end of the day is to get the call right. Lets say in a 2 man crew, the BU calls a runner out when they were clearly clearly safe, then by all means the PU should step in and make the correct call. who cares if its not "his call" or hes not supposed to do that, I care about getting the calls right, not about the possibility of embarrassing or hurting the other umps feelings.

You clearly have no clue.

[wadeintothem]

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Is softball different than baseball in the fact the baseball umps will meet, discuss a "contested" play and make a "second" ruling? There was a play a few weeks ago, slow dribbler down the first base line, the pitcher or firstbaseman ran over, fielded the ball as their momentum carried then into foul territory. The PU ruled foul ball. The umps met after the OC argued (ball was hit too slow for the fast runner to be put out) and ruled fair ball and awarded the BR 1B. Since that call was the PUs, someone had to overrule his foul ball call....

If that is true, those guys were truly idiots and shouldn't be on the field as umpires. Then again, based on your postings, I doubt that is a true scenario.

Im of the mindset that the umps job at the end of the day is to get the call right. Lets say in a 2 man crew, the BU calls a runner out when they were clearly clearly safe, then by all means the PU should step in and make the correct call. who cares if its not "his call" or hes not supposed to do that, I care about getting the calls right, not about the possibility of embarrassing or hurting the other umps feelings.

In the 2nd half of this thread Ive certainly been *****ing, but most of the time Im on here asking questions about the rules. And once again, I wouldnt be *****ing if the umps didnt have to go through a whole certification process. If they were just some random guys off the street that the commish knows, then thats understandable.

Tom made the call, but we can meet, discuss and correct the situation.



So, after a long and arduous discussion, we decided to correct the problem at hand. So, please accept our decision as rendered. You now have a clue, just not about softball or umpiring.

Good luck.

[steveshane67]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

If that is true, those guys were truly idiots and shouldn't be on the field as umpires. Then again, based on your postings, I doubt that is a true scenario.
.

Little right for Tribe but Pavano in loss | indians.com: News

when can I expect your apology??

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Little right for Tribe but Pavano in loss | indians.com: News

when can I expect your apology??

For what, you misrepresenting the situation?

To start, MLB umpires do not all know the rules as many, if not most softball umpires strive to. Each crew has at least one rules guru which is why you see them huddle most times when a rule interpretation is needed.

You clearly claimed that the umpires judged the BR to be fast and awarded him 1B. No such thing happened. They ruled the ball fair and called the "fast" runner out at 1B.

The difference in softball is that the umpire who made the initial call NEVER loses that call on the field short of a protest. In baseball, apparently the crew chief can make the ruling which is what seemed to happen here.

All you have done is convince me you are full of $hit and have absolutely no interest in intelligent conversation.

Say hi to the piano man!

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Little right for Tribe but Pavano in loss | indians.com: News

when can I expect your apology??

I can't overstate this, but... This is NOT MLB. It is clearly stated in the ASA rule book that no umpire has the right to set aside the judgment of another umpire who ruled within their respective duties.

MLB obviously feels differently from ASA about this:

ASA 10-3-B: Under no circumstances will any umpire seek to reverse a decision made by an associate, nor will any umpire criticize or interfere with the duties of their associate(s) unless asked to do so.

The last 5 words of that sentence are key.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Originally Posted by steveshane67
Is softball different than baseball in the fact the baseball umps will meet, discuss a "contested" play and make a "second" ruling? There was a play a few weeks ago, slow dribbler down the first base line, the pitcher or firstbaseman ran over, fielded the ball as their momentum carried then into foul territory. The PU ruled foul ball. The umps met after the OC argued (ball was hit too slow for the fast runner to be put out) and ruled fair ball and awarded the BR 1B. Since that call was the PUs, someone had to overrule his foul ball call....

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Little right for Tribe but Pavano in loss | indians.com: News

when can I expect your apology??

Now I'll piggypile on this guy. You described the play wrong, it was the DEFENSIVE coach who argued, and the BR was declared OUT. So you were WRONG at least on that point.

But you made a point, what about conferences and changing a call? Well, if you followed the baseball guys thread about this, they were astonished this play occurred. A phrase that is starting to make the rounds is "ringing the bell." I would bet the $44 I would get for umpiring one of your games this is the only instance of this occurring. BTW, the plate umpire, who made the error, is 1) professional and 2) makes way more than $44 a game.

We umpires do get together to get the call correct, on some plays, such as possession of the ball, pulled foot on force plays, tag/no tag, missed bases, etc. If your umpires aren't doing this, that is a local organizational issue. Remember, umpiring is customer service, and it is YOUR right to purchase any officials you want. Don't like what you get for $44 , then go with a different group. I'm sure the Boston area is crawling with groups who will do your league for less.

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Im of the mindset that the umps job at the end of the day is to get the call right. Lets say in a 2 man crew, the BU calls a runner out when they were clearly clearly safe, then by all means the PU should step in and make the correct call. who cares if its not "his call" or hes not supposed to do that, I care about getting the calls right, not about the possibility of embarrassing or hurting the other umps feelings.

Softball is no different from football or basketball, both of which I work in addition to softball. No other official on the field/court has the right to overrule another official's call. If an official makes a call, and another official believes he/she has information that may affect the call (possibly change it), he/she can bring it to the attention of the calling official. It is still up to the calling official whether or not the call stands or changes. There have been a few times in my sports where I've changed a call based on another official's information.

The part I highlighted in red, is the exact kind of attitude we get from coaches/managers in the sports I work and I noticed you picked up on it. I'm not praising you because it is the WRONG attitude to take. I've had coaches/managers who "assumed" my no-call was the right call and having another official call something in my area was the wrong call, when in fact my no-call would have been the result of my not seeing the infraction from the angle I had while my fellow official saw it from their angle. It happens all the time in football and basketball. It doesn't have a place in softball, because one of the two (or three or four, depending on the game, etc.) umpires will always have a call. For another umpire to come in with an opposing call on the same play would create a situation where there is TWO calls on the same play, and a pile of elephant s**t would need to be cleaned up. Yes, I've had situations where two officials made differing calls on the same play in football and basketball, but there's something that can be done in those sports to clean up the elephant s**t that can't be done in softball.

Rant off...have a good day, and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by steveshane67

Since that call was the PUs, someone had to overrule his foul ball call....

No, no, no. Nobody overruled him. They "offered him a veritable plethora of information that he did not previously have." He changed his own call.