On-deck batter and blocked Ball or live Ball?

[rwest]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

No, because they are justified in being in that part of the field. However, it's still their responsibility to avoid hindering the defense.

However, it sounds like they are involved in the game at that point. Maybe its just schematics, but I interpret the ODB to not be involved in the game when they are in the ODC, but involved when they leave it to direct a runner. The results are the same. If they are involved they can't hinder the defense but they do have some protection. A bad throw by the defense that hits them and in no way hinders is a live ball. Had that same throw hit them while they were in the ODC, then we have a blocked ball.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by rwest

However, it sounds like they are involved in the game at that point. Maybe its just schematics, but I interpret the ODB to not be involved in the game when they are in the ODC, but involved when they leave it to direct a runner. The results are the same. If they are involved they can't hinder the defense but they do have some protection. A bad throw by the defense that hits them and in no way hinders is a live ball. Had that same throw hit them while they were in the ODC, then we have a blocked ball.

I'll admit that I've not seen anything from ASA that addresses this specific event on the field, nor have I encountered anything definitive enough in the rule book to say with absolute authority exactly how this should be handled. The only exception to that statement is an act of interference, which would be a no-brainer.

I'm on the fence with whether or not the ODB is "involved in the game," but here are the facts:

1. They certainly just as much right to be outside of the dugout as the base coaches do (ASA 7-1-A and 7-1-C)
2. Coaches are afforded "protection" from an INT call if a ball hits them, so long as they didn't intentionally interfere (ASA 8-7-O)
3. The ODB is subject to the same interference rules as base coaches (ASA 7-1-D)

I had a play a couple of years ago where the ODB was struck by a thrown ball. It hit his foot (despite his attempt to avoid it), popped up a couple of feet into the air, and was caught by F1 backing up the throw. F1 was then able to quickly throw to F2 to attempt a play on a runner heading home. In my judgment, if the ball hadn't hit the ODB's foot, there would have been NO chance whatsoever on the runner. As such, I ruled that no INT was committed, and I also did not rule a blocked ball. In my judgment, the actions committed by the ODB could not warrant either call.

Until I hear something from OKC that addresses this specific case (or someone finds something compelling in the rule book), I see no reason to rule otherwise under the above-mentioned circumstances.

[Tru_in_Blu]

If the ODB leaves the circle to instruct runners to slide or not, and leaves 2 bats in the ODC and a ball hits a bat, does that automatically become a blocked ball?

If the throw should hit one of those bats [the ODB's bats, not the BR's bat] and then goes out of play, would the award be two bases from the time of the throw?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

If the ODB leaves the circle to instruct runners to slide or not, and leaves 2 bats in the ODC and a ball hits a bat, does that automatically become a blocked ball?

If the throw should hit one of those bats [the ODB's bats, not the BR's bat] and then goes out of play, would the award be two bases from the time of the throw?

If the ODB drops the bats, and they block the ball, it is a dead ball, and either interference (if an out can be made) or dead ball, blocked ball, runners return to last base touched prior to the blocked ball. This is discarded equipment left on the field; only the batter's bat is allowed to be left unattended.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

If the ODB drops the bats, and they block the ball, it is a dead ball, and either interference (if an out can be made) or dead ball, blocked ball, runners return to last base touched prior to the blocked ball. This is discarded equipment left on the field; only the batter's bat is allowed to be left unattended.

This can be avoided by some preventive umpiring. I do not let teams leave a bat laying against the fence on the field of play. I'll hold up the pitch and make them either hold onto it or put it in the dugout. They usually figure it out after a couple of reminders.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

If the ODB drops the bats, and they block the ball, it is a dead ball, and either interference (if an out can be made) or dead ball, blocked ball, runners return to last base touched prior to the blocked ball. This is discarded equipment left on the field; only the batter's bat is allowed to be left unattended.

What is the status of the ODB? Is he involved in the game when they leave the ODC (On Deck Circle)? Is he not involved in the game while in the ODC? If he is hit with a thrown ball while in the ODC and we don't rule interference, is it a blocked ball because he is not involved in the game? If he is hit while out of the circle and directing a runner coming home, is it a live ball if we don't rule interference?

This is one area where I'd like ASA to be more clear on the status of the ODB.

Also in FED are the answers to my question above the same? And can you provide rule references? I believe I've looked at them all, but just in case I missed one.

Thanks!
Randall

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

If the ODB leaves the circle to instruct runners to slide or not, and leaves 2 bats in the ODC and a ball hits a bat, does that automatically become a blocked ball?

Yes (ASA 8-5-G-3)

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

If the throw should hit one of those bats [the ODB's bats, not the BR's bat] and then goes out of play, would the award be two bases from the time of the throw?

It's the same rule (ASA 8-5-G-3). Once it hits the bats, the ball is dead. Where it goes after that makes no difference, with the exception of if it interferes with the defense's ability to get an out.

Read the rule very carefully. It seems like a simple rule, but the wording is very critical.