When is the B-R "out of the batter's box"?

[umpman1]

Searching the Forum shows that this subject hasn't been addressed in the last couple of years and newcomers like me could benefit from the discussion.

The books (ASA, NFHS) are clear on what is meant by in the box
1) before the pitch is thrown
2) when the batter makes contact with the ball the first time

What is not clear is the meaning of the words used to define a foul ball (ASA Rule 1):
"Touches the batter... while the batter is WITHIN THE BATTER"S BOX."

A batter is out of the box during initial contact if one or both are on the ground, completely outside of the lines of the box. A pitcher is out of the circle if she has one or both feet on the ground completely outside the line of the circle. The fielder is out of play if she has one or both feet on the ground completely outside the out of play line.

It seems to me that WITHIN means that no part of the body is touching the ground outside of the line, but yet I know from reading old threads that this is not a view held by everyone on this board.

I am looking for a rational, substantiated ruling that I can teach my younger umpires. What is your interpretation?

[shipwreck]

I was always taught and call it this way. If at least 1 foot is out of the box and has made contact with the ground completely out of the box and makes contact with the ball, she is out. Dave

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by umpman1

Searching the Forum shows that this subject hasn't been addressed in the last couple of years and newcomers like me could benefit from the discussion.

The books (ASA, NFHS) are clear on what is meant by in the box
1) before the pitch is thrown
2) when the batter makes contact with the ball the first time

What is not clear is the meaning of the words used to define a foul ball (ASA Rule 1):
"Touches the batter... while the batter is WITHIN THE BATTER"S BOX."

A batter is out of the box during initial contact if one or both are on the ground, completely outside of the lines of the box. A pitcher is out of the circle if she has one or both feet on the ground completely outside the line of the circle. The fielder is out of play if she has one or both feet on the ground completely outside the out of play line.

It seems to me that WITHIN means that no part of the body is touching the ground outside of the line, but yet I know from reading old threads that this is not a view held by everyone on this board.

I am looking for a rational, substantiated ruling that I can teach my younger umpires. What is your interpretation?

I think the rules are quite clear, no need for "interpretations". Since the requirement is to be "within" the box/circle and if the foot touching the ground is completely outside of the box/circle, obviously the lines are considered inside the box since being on the lines means you are not outside the lines.

Completely out of the box/circle means that no part of the foot which is touching the ground is on or inside the line.

I could go on, but I really have only repeated what you have already posted which may seem redundant, but just said again.

IOW, what the hell are you talking about?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

I was always taught and call it this way. If at least 1 foot is out of the box and has made contact with the ground completely out of the box and makes contact with the ball, she is out. Dave

Evrn though I have always believed the opposite to be what is taught and also avoiding guessing an out, I think I found agreement with shipwreck in some rule book, but I'll have to look for it again. In the meantime, if part of the batter is in the box, I'll apply "in the box".

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by umpman1

Searching the Forum shows that this subject hasn't been addressed in the last couple of years

BR contacting ball in Batters box

BR contacting ball in Batters box

[shipwreck]

After reading my post I meant to say is I call the batter/runner out if she contacts a batted ball in fair territory, 1 foot is completely out of the box on the ground and the other foot is not in the box. Dave

[umpman1]

I think my confusion comes from a thread posted two years ago.

Foul Ball? or?
Any rule set. LH or RH batter, swinging or bunting. Ball hits plate and bounds up in air. B-R starts for 1B. B-R is mostly out of box, but trail foot is still in box or on line when ball comes down and hits B-R.

Foul ball? Or Interference?

WMB


A reply by CecilOne:

I thought we resolved the "in or out" issue as either foot in the box counted as in the box. That would mean foul ball.



And another by IRISHMAFIA:

Speaking ASA

Where does it hit the BR? If on part of the body still in the box, foul ball. If on part of the body out of the box, INT.


And this summation by WestMichBlue

Both ASA and NFHS definitions of Foul ball say "ball hits batter." Doesn't say where! It does say where the batter is - "in the box." Is not the batter still in the box when one foot is still in or on the line?

Either way, I think that FOUL is the "safe" call. Kill the play, and it diffuses everything immediately!

WMB


Now it seems that the early consensus in this thread has it just the opposite or at least some of both rulings.
What I really want to know is what is the definitive answer to WMB's original question of "Foul or Interference"? If the B-R contacts the ball in front of the plate in fair territory with one foot on the ground outside of the batters box and one foot on the ground inside the batters box, which way do you call it?

[shipwreck]

I would no doubt call that a foul ball. Dave

[AtlUmpSteve]

I go back to what Mike said. Where did the ball hit the batter-runner?

Apply "in" or "out" of the box the same as you apply in or out of the running lane. If the ball hits the part of the BR in the running lane, nothing; if it hits the part out of the running lane, interference. The same application applies to touching a ball in fair or foul territory; it is the position of the ball that counts, not the position of the toucher.

So, if it hits the BR in the box, foul ball, out of the box, interference.