Obstruction/Missed Base

[bwbuddy]

NSA, but I assume the call would be the same in all leagues.

Batter hits ball to the outfield, runner from 2nd is obstructed by 3rd baseman (who is standing on base), and umpire makes delayed dead ball signal. Runner scores anyway. But, runner missed 3rd base (perhaps because she couldn't get to it), and umpire called her out upon appeal.

Correct call?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by bwbuddy

NSA, but I assume the call would be the same in all leagues.

Batter hits ball to the outfield, runner from 2nd is obstructed by 3rd baseman (who is standing on base), and umpire makes delayed dead ball signal. Runner scores anyway. But, runner missed 3rd base (perhaps because she couldn't get to it), and umpire called her out upon appeal.

Correct call?

Was the umpire judgement that the runner could have touched 3rd in spite of the OBS?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by bwbuddy

NSA, but I assume the call would be the same in all leagues.

Batter hits ball to the outfield, runner from 2nd is obstructed by 3rd baseman (who is standing on base), and umpire makes delayed dead ball signal. Runner scores anyway. But, runner missed 3rd base (perhaps because she couldn't get to it), and umpire called her out upon appeal.

Correct call?

Speaking ASA

Yes.

[greymule]

If the OBS occurred at 3B, why not consider whether the OBS prevented the touch of 3B, and why not consider the OBS as being between 3B and home?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

Yes.

To clarify Mike's answer, being obstructed does not relieve a runner of their baserunning responsibilities. They are still required, by rule, to touch the bases in the proper order. If they fail to do so, a proper appeal will result in an out.

If they are obstructed, the umpire should give the runner a reasonable amount of time to touch the missed base. If they are put out between the two bases where the obstruction occurred, or if they are put out prior to the base they would have reached had there been no obstruction, it's a dead ball, and the umpire shall make the award.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by greymule

If the OBS occurred at 3B, why not consider whether the OBS prevented the touch of 3B, and why not consider the OBS as being between 3B and home?

A missed base is an exception to the protection provided for a runner between the bases where s/he was obstructed.

[first2third]

So, if I were a coach I should have my third baseman tackle the runner coming from 2b on a base hit. Make sure they don't touch third and then on appeal get the out? That just doesn't sound right.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by first2third

So, if I were a coach I should have my third baseman tackle the runner coming from 2b on a base hit. Make sure they don't touch third and then on appeal get the out? That just doesn't sound right.

No. If I see that kind of behavior, here's what will happen.

First, I kill the play. Your player is no longer engaged in playing softball.

Next, I make my OBS award. The runner gets the base that, in my judgment, s/he would have gotten had there been no OBS. Any other runners that were affected by the OBS will also get their awarded bases.

After that, I'm tossing your player for USC.

Lastly, if I believe that the coach told her to do that intentionally, the coach will be following her on the way out.

That sounds about right to me.

Originally Posted by first2third

So, if I were a coach I should have my third baseman tackle the runner coming from 2b on a base hit. Make sure they don't touch third and then on appeal get the out? That just doesn't sound right.

Let me reword this for you...If I were a coach, I could just instruct my players to stand on the bases so noone could touch them, and we could appeal everyone who's under OBS "protection" and still get them out. What would you do then? By the way you all are stating, this would be legal.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

Let me reword this for you...If I were a coach, I could just instruct my players to stand on the bases so noone could touch them, and we could appeal everyone who's under OBS "protection" and still get them out. What would you do then? By the way you all are stating, this would be legal.

If I see something obvious like that, I'm definitely giving the coach a warning.

"Coach, if your girls don't stop intentionally blocking the bases, I'm going to start ejecting players for behaving in an unsportsmanlike manner."

What's so hard about this? There's no way players would behave that way without some instruction from a coach, and if a coach is giving his/her players to behave this way, make the coach responsible for the players' conduct.

[NCASAUmp]

Okay, let me clarify. If it's 10U, and the girls just don't know any better, that's one thing. Pull the coach aside and give them a little education on OBS. No need to be a jackass at that level.

However, if this is 18U, those girls already know how to play. They know the game, and they know right from wrong. If I see fielders intentionally obstructing runners in a fashion described here, their coach is gonna shape up real quick. That's not softball, that's a willful violation of the rules, and someone can/will get tossed for that.

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Okay, let me clarify. If it's 10U, and the girls just don't know any better, that's one thing. Pull the coach aside and give them a little education on OBS. No need to be a jackass at that level.

However, if this is 18U, those girls already know how to play. They know the game, and they know right from wrong. If I see fielders intentionally obstructing runners in a fashion described here, their coach is gonna shape up real quick. That's not softball, that's a willful violation of the rules, and someone can/will get tossed for that.

How would you determine that? What if a coach taught the technique in practice but doesn't utter a word to his/her players during the game, knowing they'll do it anyway? Not trying to be an a**, just devil's advocate.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Okay, you have all gone from a real simple scenario about a runner "possibly" missing a base to possible ramifications of some absurd coaching plot to deprive good young Americans from touching a base. Damn pinko-commie ba$tards!!!!

AFAIC, the runner can and should make every attempt to touch the base shy of pushing/hitting the defender. There is a given remedy for such action by the defense called "obstruction". I assume you have all heard of this rule before? Pretty sure that is what we are talking about here.

If the player just stands there because she cannot touch the base, I'm tagging on an extra base for about every 2.5 seconds she is kept from advancing. Of course, for the coach to teach this, s/he would have to have a lot of confidence the umpire is going to know the proper way to handle it.

Can you get rid of a player who is intentionally violating the rules? Sure, but I don't think that is where bwbuddy was going with this.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Ref Ump Welsch

How would you determine that? What if a coach taught the technique in practice but doesn't utter a word to his/her players during the game, knowing they'll do it anyway? Not trying to be an a**, just devil's advocate.

If I see a coach's players repeatedly and deliberately standing on the bases with clear intent to do so, I'm going to say something to the coach under the guise of "preventative umpiring."

"Coach, I've been calling OBS on just about every play. Your fielders can't just stand on the bases and block the runners unless they have the ball. Understand?"

See what he says then.

"But, Blue... That's what they're taught to do!"

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Okay, you have all gone from a real simple scenario about a runner "possibly" missing a base to possible ramifications of some absurd coaching plot to deprive good young Americans from touching a base. Damn pinko-commie ba$tards!!!!

Oh, come on, Mike... What good is a forum if we can't go down some rabbit holes?