Boo

whiskers_ump · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 08, 2009, 08:48am

ASA
Here is the situation. 1 out, batter 9 #2 Jackie grounds out, 10 #21 Bobbie comes up to bat & flies out, before the defense leaves the field the coach appeals batting out of order. What do you do as the umpire?

Batting order

Number Name Position

1 22 Sally 2

2 14 Jane 5

3 6 Cheryl 4

4 8 Sue 9

5 12 Megan DP

6 26 Candace 3

7 5 Kelly 7

8 34 Jaylin 8

9 2 Jackie 6

10 21 Bobbie Flex

Dholloway1962 · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 08, 2009, 08:56am

Already had this one this year:

Did I get this FLEX situation right?

Dakota · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 08, 2009, 10:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiskers_ump

ASA
Here is the situation. 1 out, batter 9 #2 Jackie grounds out, 10 #21 Bobbie comes up to bat & flies out, before the defense leaves the field the coach appeals batting out of order. What do you do as the umpire?

The FLEX batting in the mythical #10 hole is not BOO, it is an illegal player batting for the #1 batter. (ASA 4-3-I).

CecilOne · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 08, 2009, 11:44am

This has come up repeatedly, and we seem to have concluded that it is illegal, not BOO. The confusion come from the possibility of the FLEX batting for the DP, which in the OP would obvioulsy be out of order and also unreported. Seems to me, that BOO would be a real stretch, so illegal sub is the solution.

CajunNewBlue · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 08, 2009, 01:31pm

hrmmm..what would it be in FED? samey same?

never mind...

Dakota · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 08, 2009, 01:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

hrmmm..what would it be in FED? samey same?

Yes. 2-57-3. Illegal substitute.

CajunNewBlue · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 08, 2009, 01:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota

Yes. 2-57-3. Illegal substitute.

gracias.

CelticNHBlue · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 08, 2009, 07:00pm

We have discussed this previously, and NCAA is different from the others. NCAA presumes the FLEX is batting for the DP, that is the only location they can bat legally, but are unreported. In this case, the request for BOO is upheld, B1 (#22 Sally) is out, B2 (#14 Jane) will be due up next inning, and the substition of the FLEX for the DP is made official. Good luck with the OC after that. The DC could also pocket the unreported substitute (in place of the BOO) and appeal that at most opportune moment later.

CajunNewBlue · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 08, 2009, 07:54pm

NFHS.... once the flex is restricted... could the coach enter an available sub in as the flex or is that position burnt?

Dakota · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 08, 2009, 08:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

NFHS.... once the flex is restricted... could the coach enter an available sub in as the flex...?

Yes, it the player that is restricted, not the position.

Snocatzdad · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 24, 2009, 11:38am

I have a different BOO question. Assume a standard 1-9 lineup no dp/flex

Batter #4 comes up when #3 is suppossed to be up and completes an at bat at which point the DC notes the BOO.

If Batter #4 reached base then Batter #3 is declared out, Runners all return, and Batter #4 is up again.

If Batter #4 was out then Batter #3 is declared out (only one out though not two outs) and batter #5 is now up.

This seems confusing to me, I would think Batter #4 should be up again regardless of the result of her at bat, but the way I read ASA 7.2.D.2.Exception that places #5 up next.

NCASAUmp · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 24, 2009, 12:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snocatzdad

I have a different BOO question. Assume a standard 1-9 lineup no dp/flex

Batter #4 comes up when #3 is suppossed to be up and completes an at bat at which point the DC notes the BOO.

If Batter #4 reached base then Batter #3 is declared out, Runners all return, and Batter #4 is up again.

If Batter #4 was out then Batter #3 is declared out (only one out though not two outs) and batter #5 is now up.

This seems confusing to me, I would think Batter #4 should be up again regardless of the result of her at bat, but the way I read ASA 7.2.D.2.Exception that places #5 up next.

These are correct according to ASA rules. The point is that we do not take away outs. Any outs obtained during the incorrect at-bat will be kept, because we should not penalize the defense for the offense's mistake.

CecilOne · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 24, 2009, 01:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

These are correct according to ASA rules. The point is that we do not take away outs. Any outs obtained during the incorrect at-bat will be kept, because we should not penalize the defense for the offense's mistake.

Then, shouldn't #4 and #3 both be out, 2 outs not 1 out; as in "If Batter #4 was out then Batter #3 is declared out (only one out though not two outs) and batter #5 is now up."?

Do I remember correctly that this is only true in ASA?

NCASAUmp · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 24, 2009, 02:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Then, shouldn't #4 and #3 both be out, 2 outs not 1 out; as in "If Batter #4 was out then Batter #3 is declared out (only one out though not two outs) and batter #5 is now up."?

Do I remember correctly that this is only true in ASA?

I think what he was saying was that in the second scenario, B4 batted out of order (B3 was skipped) and was put out on the play. That'd be two outs.

I don't know what other associations have to say about this. Someone else will have to speak to that.

MNBlue · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 24, 2009, 02:20pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Then, shouldn't #4 and #3 both be out, 2 outs not 1 out; as in "If Batter #4 was out then Batter #3 is declared out (only one out though not two outs) and batter #5 is now up."?

Do I remember correctly that this is only true in ASA?

I agree with Cecil.

ASA 7.2.D.2

a. The player who should have batted is out.
b. Any advance of runners and any run scored shall be nullified. All outs made stand.
c. The next batter is the player whose name follows that of the player called out for failing to bat.
d. If the batter declared out is the third out, the correct batter to lead off the next inning shall be the player who would have come to bat had the player been put out by ordinary play.
Exception:
If the incorrect batter is called out as a result of their time at bat, and is scheduled to be the proper batter, skip that player and the next person in the line-up will be the batter.

NFHS, however, only takes one out in this situation. The at bat by the incorrect batter is 'negated'.

NFHS 7.2 Penalty #2:
When an improper batter becomes a runner or is put out and the defensive team appeals to the umpire before the next pitch (legal or illegal), or prior to an intentional base on balls (S.P.), or before the infielders leave the diamond if a half-inning is ending: The umpire shall declare the batter who should have batted out (not the improper batter). The improper batter's time at bat is negated and she is returned to the dugout/bench area. All outs stand and runners who were not declared out must return to the base occupied at the time of the pitch. If a runner advances because of a stolen base , wild pitch, passed ball (F.P) or an illegal pitch (F.P.) while the improper batter is at bat, such advance is legal.