BR removing helmet on home run

[LIUmp]

High school playoff game - regional semis. ASA/Fed rules. 3 man crew.

Ground rules on this field state that once ball reaches parking lot in RF it is a home run - fly ball, or ground ball.

Top of 4th inning, tie score 2-2. R1 on 2nd, R2 on first. B3 hits ball into right field that bounces twice and enters parking lot. Ball ruled home run.

Home coach comes out and asks the umpires to rule B3 out because he says at some point on her travel around the bases, she removed her helmet.

I was watching the game as a spectator, so I am unsure as to when B3 removes her helmet, or IF she did. However, after a meeting with the protest committee, the umpires ruled that the ball is a dead ball on a home run, so removing her helmet did not matter.

I know the ASA rule is that if a player removes their helmet, the player is declared out immediately, and the ball remains live.

What are your thoughts on this? Does the home coach have a legitimate argument? His argument was that it does not matter when she removes it, between home and first, or between third and home, a rule is a rule and must be enforced.

My other questions are:

Who's responsibility is it to watch the B3 for this? BU3 I would think. On this play, all three umpires signaled home run. And the argument that during a dead ball "it does not matter what she does" is weak because, if a runner misses a base, (and properly appealed) or if she passes another runner, you would still have an out - dead ball or live ball.

Does it matter when she removes it? Before the ball becomes dead for entering the parking lot, or after... or would the rule apply at any time?



Thoughts?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by LIBlueASA

High school playoff game - regional semis. ASA/Fed rules. 3 man crew.

Ground rules on this field state that once ball reaches parking lot in RF it is a home run - fly ball, or ground ball.

Top of 4th inning, tie score 2-2. R1 on 2nd, R2 on first. B3 hits ball into right field that bounces twice and enters parking lot. Ball ruled home run.

Home coach comes out and asks the umpires to rule B3 out because he says at some point on her travel around the bases, she removed her helmet.

I was watching the game as a spectator, so I am unsure as to when B3 removes her helmet, or IF she did. However, after a meeting with the protest committee, the umpires ruled that the ball is a dead ball on a home run, so removing her helmet did not matter.

I agree

[wadeintothem]

I agree as well.. and the ball is dead in ASA too.

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I agree as well.. and the ball is dead in ASA too.

I know...that's why my question is...does it matter when she removes her helmet? I know this is picking straws here on the part of the home coach, but if B3 removed her helmet when the ball was still live, wouldn't she be declared out? THEN the ball becomes dead on the resulting home run.

FYI, my ruling on the play would have been same. Dead ball, doesn't matter.

Just asking though.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by LIBlueASA

I know...that's why my question is...does it matter when she removes her helmet? I know this is picking straws here on the part of the home coach, but if B3 removed her helmet when the ball was still live, wouldn't she be declared out? THEN the ball becomes dead on the resulting home run.

FYI, my ruling on the play would have been same. Dead ball, doesn't matter.

Just asking though.

In Fed play, Offensive players must keep their helmets on while in live ball territory and the status of the ball does not matter. First time is a (team?) warning. This is different than ASA play.

[wadeintothem]

This is one of the better written rules, it practically tells you not to OOO this rule:

(first the ball needs to live)

And it says umpires should use discretion as to the intent of the rule concerning player safety.

Pretty cut and dried IMO.

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

This is one of the better written rules, it practically tells you not to OOO this rule:

(first the ball needs to live)

And it says umpires should use discretion as to the intent of the rule concerning player safety.

Pretty cut and dried IMO.

Thanks all for the quick replies. This board is great when it comes to having a question answered timely. My first time posting on this board, been umpiring for about 8 years.

Would love to do some large-scale tournaments (i.e. Nationals) one day. Suggestions?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

In Fed play, Offensive players must keep their helmets on while in live ball territory and the status of the ball does not matter. First time is a (team?) warning. This is different than ASA play.

NFHS Casebook Play 1.6.2.B(a) says no infraction after hitting the ball over the fence (this play specifies removed helmet upon touching second base).

The actual rule also states the helmet must be worn while the ball is live, and offensive players are in live ball territory.

No call in ANY major association. DC is begging for anything.

[vcblue]

Here you go from (FP Only)

2007 ASA Case Book Play 3.5-8

B1 hits an out of the park home run and, as B1 pass 3rd base, removes their helmet. The plate umpire call B1 Out.

Ruling: When the ball went over the outfield fence, it is no longer a live ball; therefore B1 did not remove their helmet during a live ball and should not be penalized (ASA 3.5E Effect)

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by LIBlueASA

Thanks all for the quick replies. This board is great when it comes to having a question answered timely. My first time posting on this board, been umpiring for about 8 years.

Would love to do some large-scale tournaments (i.e. Nationals) one day. Suggestions?

I've found:

- Work hard on ASA mechanics and rules and work on it every game. Live and breath this sport.
- Work hard on your game management skills - its not enough to know the rules but not how to enforce them or control a game without acting like a small country tyrant or an OOO smitty.
- Truely listen when one of your evaluators/mentors/instructors is teaching something. Do not take it personnal, take it professional. Listen when others are getting evaluated

- Get proficient and give back to your organization
- Kiss the booty

To be an effective means

[ronald]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

In Fed play, Offensive players must keep their helmets on while in live ball territory and the status of the ball does not matter. First time is a (team?) warning. This is different than ASA play.

I beg to differ.

1-6 Art 2. The batting helmet is required to be worn while the ball is live and in-live ball territory until the ball enters dead-ball territory ....

Casebook 1.6.2 Situaton B: An offensive player, (a) after hitting a home run over the fence, removes her helmet upon touching second base,.... In (a), there is no infraction

Thanks, Ron

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by ronald

I beg to differ.

1-6 Art 2. The batting helmet is required to be worn while the ball is live and in-live ball territory until the ball enters dead-ball territory ....

Casebook 1.6.2 Situaton B: An offensive player, (a) after hitting a home run over the fence, removes her helmet upon touching second base,.... In (a), there is no infraction

Thanks, Ron

I stand corrected.