Removing Helmet

[Mountaineer]

This may be a HTBT . . . I was working a college intersquad scrimmage last night and had something I had never seen before. R1 on 3rd and drew a throw from F2. R1 dove back to 3rd and F5 couldn't handle the throw and the ball went to the OF. R1 jumps up and her helmet is now in her face from the dive and making contact with the fielder to the point that she cannot (or can not) see. She tried to straighten it up but it didn't get any better so she just knocked it off her head. Again, NCAA rules - what do you call?

I felt it was a safety issue as much as anything - she's running down the baseline and there's no way she could see where she was going. Since it was intersquad . . . I just called her over and told her she would have been called out in a regular game (rule 3 section 8.a effect) - her coach JUMPED her @$$!

So what do you think - no call or out?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

This may be a HTBT . . . I was working a college intersquad scrimmage last night and had something I had never seen before. R1 on 3rd and drew a throw from F2. R1 dove back to 3rd and F5 couldn't handle the throw and the ball went to the OF. R1 jumps up and her helmet is now in her face from the dive and making contact with the fielder to the point that she cannot (or can not) see. She tried to straighten it up but it didn't get any better so she just knocked it off her head. Again, NCAA rules - what do you call?

I felt it was a safety issue as much as anything - she's running down the baseline and there's no way she could see where she was going. Since it was intersquad . . . I just called her over and told her she would have been called out in a regular game (rule 8.a effect) - her coach JUMPED her @$$!

So what do you think - no call or out?

Does the NCAA require a play or possiblity of a play for the rule to be in effect?

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Does the NCAA require a play or possiblity of a play for the rule to be in effect?

Here's the rule:

Rule 3 Section 8.a. effect: . . . Failure to wear a legal helmet when directed by the umpire shall result in the player’s ejection. Deliberately wearing the helmet improperly or intentionally removing the helmet while the ball is live shall result in the player being declared out but shall not remove a force play.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Technically, no. Intentionally removing the helmet while the ball is live is an out (doesn't remove force, ball remains alive, etc.).

At the same time, it is one we are not expected to look at or notice when the ball is live unless there is a live play. This is part of the "do it their way" that the coaches want and expect.

[Mountaineer]

So are you saying "no call", Steve? You do D1 right? So my reasoning for not calling her out - safety - wasn't the proper reason. In your opinion, there wasn't a "play" so "live ball" doesn't come in at that point. Correct?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Yes, I do. Not sure I fully visualize the play you are describing, but if the runner stayed at third, or if headed home without a throw, then the coordinators I work for would want/expect a "no call".

[IRISHMAFIA]

That's where I was going. If the runner was heading home and the ball was still rolling toward the outfield fence, there is no real safety concern.

Even ASA directs umpires to use discretion as to the intent of the rule which is safety.