Pithcing lane in the WCWS

[dsimp8]

just curious if they are ever going to call Stacy Nelson from Florida out of the pitching lane. 9 out of 10 pitches she steps out of it it seems. I know the pitchers wipe it away but can a coach request it be re-lined?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by dsimp8

just curious if they are ever going to call Stacy Nelson from Florida out of the pitching lane. 9 out of 10 pitches she steps out of it it seems. I know the pitchers wipe it away but can a coach request it be re-lined?

And here is the very problem with the lined pitching lane!

I'll tell you what, you get behind the plate on a field with a pitching lane and a pitcher who is pitching 60 mph, you tell me whether the pitch was a ball or strike, AND whether the pitcher was out of the lane UPON RELEASE OF THE PITCH.

However, with the pitching lane marked, only the people who have nothing to do other than watch the pitcher's feet know the violation when it is minute. And suddenly, everyone is an umpire!

[hawk65]

Yes it is a problem. It is extremely difficult to watch the feet and then watch a pitch whether the pitch is 60 mph or 40 mph. But there is another problem -- it is a rule! So how do you enforce it? Or do you? Do you let everything go and let the pitcher repeatedly get an advantage and flaunt the rule directly in front of you? We're supposed to enforce all rules -- not just the ones we agree with or that are easy to call.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by hawk65

Yes it is a problem. It is extremely difficult to watch the feet and then watch a pitch whether the pitch is 60 mph or 40 mph. But there is another problem -- it is a rule! So how do you enforce it?

And you expected NCAA coaches to think that far outside of their little box?

Or do you? Do you let everything go and let the pitcher repeatedly get an advantage and flaunt the rule directly in front of you? We're supposed to enforce all rules -- not just the ones we agree with or that are easy to call.

You enforce the rules as instructed and call the violations you see. And when I say that, I mean "see" to the point of no doubt. No guessing, no reckoning, you must see it and be confident with the call.

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by hawk65

Yes it is a problem. It is extremely difficult to watch the feet and then watch a pitch whether the pitch is 60 mph or 40 mph. But there is another problem -- it is a rule! So how do you enforce it? Or do you? Do you let everything go and let the pitcher repeatedly get an advantage and flaunt the rule directly in front of you? We're supposed to enforce all rules -- not just the ones we agree with or that are easy to call.

You enforce it like you do every other rule. Call it when you see it. We don't see every runner leave early or every illegal pitch or every batter who makes contact with a foot outside the batter's box. But when we do see it, we call it.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by hawk65

Yes it is a problem. It is extremely difficult to watch the feet and then watch a pitch whether the pitch is 60 mph or 40 mph. But there is another problem -- it is a rule! So how do you enforce it? Or do you? Do you let everything go and let the pitcher repeatedly get an advantage and flaunt the rule directly in front of you? We're supposed to enforce all rules -- not just the ones we agree with or that are easy to call.

This is not even a very realistic statement. Let me ask you this. Do you call an IP the pitcher who is one inch outside the lane? (Its a rule after all.) Or are you more concerned with calling the ball or the strike? Do you call the runner who left one nano-second before the release of the pitch out for leaving early? (It, too, is a rule.) Do you strictly enforce the one minute from the last out, including any warm up pitches and little team gatherings at the pitching circle, as the only time that teams have between innings. Do you keep a watch on you to do this? (If so, where do you keep it?) When calling NFHS, do you make every player lift her shirt so that you can assure that there is absolutely no jewelry being worn?

These are all rules. I could go on and on. The point is, being an umpire requires common sense mixed with an understanding of the rules. The umpire's first priority on the pitch is to judge it in the strike zone or not. That is what they most expect of us. Now, if, in tracking the pitch, I notice the pitcher upon delivery practically disappears from my periphial vision, then yes, I will slightly shift my focus, and when it happens again and I am sure she has violated the lane rule, I will call it. You can't see everything, even though the coaches expect you to. You have to prioritize your duties, and, as has already been noted by other posters in this thread, call the violations that you see when you see them.

Those stupid lines in NCAA have done absolutely nothing to help me in making this call.

[hawk65]

This is a very realistic question and from my limited experience, the most constant and vexing question in officiating -- when do you enforce the rules versus when to pass on a call. Any experienced official knows you make those decisions repeatedly throughout any contest. We also know we're supposed to know the "spirit of the rule," and it seems the powers that be wanted more enforcement of the pitching lane lines so they required those lines be marked on the field. So what is the "spirit of the rule?" To have pitchers noticeably step on or between those lines or to habitually get away with having a tip of the foot barely touch the outside of those lines? When working the plate, it is one of the lowest priorities I have. But if I see a pitcher is constantly very close or outside, I'll call it on her and without any hesitation and do so as quickly as I can in the game. I'll make the pitcher make that adjustment and live within the "spirit of the rule" rather than let her divert my focus. The bane of all conscientious officials are those officials who refuse to enforce some rules because they are tough to enforce. We've all heard, "Nobody else has called that!" And that is true, nobody has called it all season! But are you right or wrong? Or are all the other officials because they didn't know the rule or chose to pass because it wasn't important to them? We all constantly make those choices every game and learn to live with our choice.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by hawk65

This is a very realistic question and from my limited experience, the most constant and vexing question in officiating -- when do you enforce the rules versus when to pass on a call. Any experienced official knows you make those decisions repeatedly throughout any contest. We also know we're supposed to know the "spirit of the rule," and it seems the powers that be wanted more enforcement of the pitching lane lines so they required those lines be marked on the field. So what is the "spirit of the rule?" To have pitchers noticeably step on or between those lines or to habitually get away with having a tip of the foot barely touch the outside of those lines? When working the plate, it is one of the lowest priorities I have. But if I see a pitcher is constantly very close or outside, I'll call it on her and without any hesitation and do so as quickly as I can in the game. I'll make the pitcher make that adjustment and live within the "spirit of the rule" rather than let her divert my focus. The bane of all conscientious officials are those officials who refuse to enforce some rules because they are tough to enforce. We've all heard, "Nobody else has called that!" And that is true, nobody has called it all season! But are you right or wrong? Or are all the other officials because they didn't know the rule or chose to pass because it wasn't important to them? We all constantly make those choices every game and learn to live with our choice.

What you seem to not realize is, we aren't talking about choosing not to make a call here. We are talking about seeing the call to make it! Big difference. It is easy to see the call when you have nothing else to think about, which is what I pointed out to the OP. You seemed to have taken that to mean that I, and others, won't make the call when we see it.

You are arguing apples and oranges here.

[marvin]

Originally Posted by hawk65

To have pitchers noticeably step on or between those lines or to habitually get away with having a tip of the foot barely touch the outside of those lines?

Bold added.

The tip of the foot (or any part of the foot) touching the outside of the pitcher's lane lines is a legal pitch, the pitcher isn't getting away with anything.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

You are arguing apples and oranges here.

Damn, now I'm hungry again.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

by the way the angle principle that has been posted about the stike zone applies to the pitchers lane too

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by kcg NC2Ablu

by the way the angle principle that has been posted about the stike zone applies to the pitchers lane too

If you are talking about camera angles, I disagree.
(as long as we are talking about the line as chalked).

If you can see the entire foot on the ground and the entire line, you can see that the foot is either in or outside.
If you cant see those things, then I agree, you can't make a judgement.

WIth the strike zone, you can never have that...

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

If you are talking about camera angles, I disagree.
(as long as we are talking about the line as chalked).

If you can see the entire foot on the ground and the entire line, you can see that the foot is either in or outside.
If you cant see those things, then I agree, you can't make a judgement.

WIth the strike zone, you can never have that...

Yeah, when I watched the D2 Championship, they sure made every effort to NOT let us see what appeared to be obvious; that pitcher (Erb) seemed to be WAAAAAAY out.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Yeah, when I watched the D2 Championship, they sure made every effort to NOT let us see what appeared to be obvious; that pitcher (Erb) seemed to be WAAAAAAY out.

Steve, interesting you talk about that particular pitcher. She is local for me and the other Steve (M). I have watched her for her entire college career and while in high school. I'm not saying she isn't out, but she isn't waaaaaay (sic) out. And if you saw the same broadcast I saw, the camera angle is different than the Division I championships.

Steve M and I was working a fall game with her a few years ago (before the lines), and we questioned it (she throws very hard, and you will miss the pitch if you watch her feet). So we looked at foot prints just being curious. Out of the 24", most likely, but not by much. We discussed this with the coach, who didn't want her to be outside because "that takes her off her power line" (I know, it was coach speak). BTW, she does not throw a screw ball.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

If you are talking about camera angles, I disagree.
(as long as we are talking about the line as chalked).

If you can see the entire foot on the ground and the entire line, you can see that the foot is either in or outside.
If you cant see those things, then I agree, you can't make a judgement.

WIth the strike zone, you can never have that...

So the ball that looks like it is in the batters box but is actually hittin gthe corner of the plate couldnt possibly mean that the foot looking like it could be off the chalk but truly be hitting it with even the front part of the foot? In my opinion I think that its totally possible