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Old Sat Apr 04, 2009, 08:46am
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DP playing defense

when the DP plays defense for someone other than the flex...does the defensive player the DP is playing for become the new DP ? if she does...does this mean that the DP changes slots in the lineup ? I'll stop here for now.
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Old Sat Apr 04, 2009, 09:08am
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did a search and though there was alot of discussion the basic ? I need answered is about the lineup card...if the dp was in the 3 slot and goes to play defense for the player in the 5 slot does the dp postion stay in the 3 slot or does it move to the 5 slot? thanks
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Old Sat Apr 04, 2009, 09:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloverdale View Post
when the DP plays defense for someone other than the flex...does the defensive player the DP is playing for become the new DP ?
No, the defensive player does not become the new DP.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cloverdale View Post
...if the dp was in the 3 slot and goes to play defense for the player in the 5 slot does the dp postion stay in the 3 slot or does it move to the 5 slot?
The DP stays in the same spot in the batting order. So does the player replaced on defense.

Last edited by BretMan; Sat Apr 04, 2009 at 09:19am.
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Old Sat Apr 04, 2009, 09:19am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloverdale View Post
did a search and though there was alot of discussion the basic ? I need answered is about the lineup card...if the dp was in the 3 slot and goes to play defense for the player in the 5 slot does the dp postion stay in the 3 slot or does it move to the 5 slot? thanks
A player's batting position is their batting postion is their batting position is their batting position. It shall never change. In your example, the DP never leaves the third slot in the batting position on the line-up card.

However, if the DP is playing short stop, I believe she would still be referred to a F6 in the scoring book... but to find a definitive answer for that, you'd have to go to a web site specifically designed for scorers.
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Old Sat Apr 04, 2009, 09:32am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloverdale View Post
did a search...
There's a lot of places on the internets where "DP" means something very different.
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Old Sat Apr 04, 2009, 10:19am
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For the purpose of who is paired with the FLEX player the DP is always the player who occupies the spot in the batting order designated on the starting lineup as the DP. If the player who is listed on the starting lineup as DP is playing a defensive position the DP's 'slot' in the batting order still has not changed.

If the player in the DP's slot in the batting order ever plays defense for the FLEX, the FLEX has left the game, even if the inning before the player listed in the DP's slot played somewhere on defense.

The FLEX can not bat anywhere in the lineup other than the spot designated as the DP on the starting lineup. Coaches will try this. "My DP is playing F6 and my starting F6 is now DP. My Flex is going to bat for the player who started at F6." NO, NO, NO!

Think of it this way. When the team is on offense there is only one spot in the lineup with a position attached, the DPs - all of the other stuff (F3, F6, etc. only matters when they are on defense). That spot in the starting lineup designated as DP is always the DP spot. If they go down to 9 by putting the flex in the DPs spot and then go back to 10 - the DP spot will be back where it started.

Sorry to be long winded. My point is that the DP's slot in the lineup never changes and that slot and the FLEX player always remained paired together.

Note: Yes - I've ignored the CR (you have to know who last played F1/F2 when a team is on offense to properly apply the CR rule).
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Old Sat Apr 04, 2009, 12:01pm
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And, to clarify, the player the DP is playing defense for (assuming not the FLEX) remains in the batting order in her original slot, and she continues to bat. She has not left the game.
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Old Sat Apr 04, 2009, 07:57pm
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thanks for the responses...

understood
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Old Sat Apr 04, 2009, 08:07pm
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Let me add a teaching tool I have used to help explain the concept. Assume there are actually 10 defensive positions; and the DP is playing "bench". You can have the LF and RF switch defensive positions, and we know they still bat in the same order, and neither has left the game. Use the same concept, and the SS and "bench" can switch defensive positions, and neither has left the game.

If you think along that concept, you then only need to add the FLEX is married/twinned to the DP spot in the batting order, NOT to the person playing the defensive position of "bench", no matter who that is any any given time.

While I know you say you understood, I hope others can take something from this way of explaining the concept.
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Old Sun Apr 05, 2009, 12:50am
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Steve, the concept you offer is one that I heard a few years ago and it helped me to better grasp the DP/FLEX rule.

I like to think that I have pretty good reading comprehension, but reading that page-long rule in the rule book is like reading the freaking tax code. About half-way through your eyes will start to glaze over!

The above concept helped, reading and re-reading the rule helped, taking each part bit-by-bit until it made sense, the Rules Supplement helped, the various summaries and clarifications published by other umpires helped and reading about the rule on several discussion boards has helped.

I think that I've finally got the hang of all the ins and outs of who can do what and when they can do it well enough to pull it from memory and properly apply it on the field. But it took some work to get there!
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Old Sun Apr 05, 2009, 09:07am
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lineup management system

like bretman, my eyes glazed over reading the rule book on dp/flex...the learning tool i came across is located on the cactusumpires.org web site the lineup card management system has a great section on dp/flex and helped me alot in the understanding of what they can and cannot do...this question had more to do with the correct defensive postion being kept current on the lineup card because of the c/runner and wanted to make sure of the pitcher/catcher .
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Old Sun Apr 05, 2009, 09:52am
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Four all intense and porpoises, the DP is the DP until replaced in the batting order by the Flex...and could still re-enter as the DP.

(First clause triggered by spasmodic response to "alot.")
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Old Mon Apr 06, 2009, 09:09am
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You have four intense porpoises??
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