control of the ball

[beachbum]

B1 has infield hit. F3 prepares for thrown and tag. Ball arrives early enought for runner to be out, but is rolling(moving) around in f3's glove as B1 touches base.

what is the call?? is the runner out becasue the ball was technically in the glove or safe because F3 did not have total control of it?

I called the runner safe. Coach claimed that control is not necessary.

[3afan]

of course control is needed ... coach was reaching, nice try but no dice

[ChampaignBlue]

Originally Posted by beachbum

B1 has infield hit. F3 prepares for thrown and tag. Ball arrives early enought for runner to be out, but is rolling(moving) around in f3's glove as B1 touches base.

what is the call?? is the runner out becasue the ball was technically in the glove or safe because F3 did not have total control of it?

I called the runner safe. Coach claimed that control is not necessary.

Control is indeed necessary and it is up to you to decide if she has control of the ball. Is it moving because she is shifting it for a throw or is it moving because she has not yet got the ball under her control? On a relay throw the ball may not come to a stop in the glove but the fact that she could throw the ball demonstrated control. That's also why you should yell out "on the transfer" if the player drops the ball trying to make the relay throw on a double play so the players all know that you are still calling the first runner out, that you were satisfied that she had control, saves debate.

I should add that the player needs to be under control as well, unlike football, the ground can cause a dropped catch.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by beachbum

B1 has infield hit. F3 prepares for thrown and tag. Ball arrives early enought for runner to be out, but is rolling(moving) around in f3's glove as B1 touches base.

what is the call?? is the runner out becasue the ball was technically in the glove or safe because F3 did not have total control of it?

I called the runner safe. Coach claimed that control is not necessary.

Think about how you worded this. Not trying to be difficult or saying your call was wrong, just parsing out the situation for discussion as others may see it.

"in f3's glove" indicates that I should ask how you saw the ball if it was indeed "in the glove"? There is nothing indicating there must be a particular standard of a grip on the ball, just in control. Some of these gloves are pretty big. Even the biggest players do not "grip" the ball with the glove, but trap it between the fingers and webbing.

Of course, now you have to define control. Could the player voluntarily release the ball? Could F3 have flipped the ball from the glove to the pitcher or another player? Ever see a pivot man turn a play at 2B without the ball ever getting inside the glove?

IMO, "control" of the ball means that the player can control the action of the ball, not necessarily a firm no-one-get-get-the-ball-away-from-me type of grip.

If F3 scoops one out of the dirt, closes the glove and in the same motion voluntarily releases the ball, from the glove, back to the pitcher, did that player not show enough control of the ball to dictate it's direction and speed to another player? Wouldn't that be considered control and/or voluntary release? Is that not the definition of a catch?

Okay, let's have fun

[wadeintothem]

Yes, there must be control. I would say the call should be "bobble" and a sell safe. This is the type of play where a coach is going to advocate for their call, but you made the right call.

[tcblue13]

Good Call
I used to be so quick on the trigger with safes and outs that I called an out in a situation just like you had and the ball ended up on the ground. I had to change the call and then had to "explain" it to the D coach. Noooo Fun