What Happened to Fourth Out thread?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by rwest

Can't understand why the author deleted it. I liked the discussion and I had a question for you Steve in my last post, but obviously you didn't see since it's gone. So here it is again....

What rule are you basing the statment you made that retouching home and heading back to third unscores the run? Are you just extending to this situation the rule that states if a runner returns to a based they were forced to leave, that reinstates the force? Doesn't exactly apply here, but I see the logic.

I like your line of reasoning, I just want to know if there is a rule we can hang our hat on. Now if a runner has scored and errorneously thinks they have to return to 3rd and does so, we still score the run correct? Even if they are "tagged" while off the base?

As others have stated, that is an extension of logic and precedent set by other rules and approved rulings.

The two lines of thought I use include that reversing does reinstate a force (in effect, un-touching the base); that means the runner has given up that position, and is in jeopardy until she returns.

The second line attempts to prove the opposite is also true; if a runner touches home, then a coach yells "TAG HER!!!", so that the runner becomes confused and attempts to retouch home, we do NOT put her back in jeopardy. She touched home, and her confusion didn't make it a miss, even if she attempts to touch again. She has scored; period. If the defense caused the confusion, her attempt to retouch is their fault. If an offensive team member causes the defense to make a play on the already scored runner, and this interferes with a play on another runner, this could be interference.

Put them together (and consider the fact that no rule contradicts), and a runner that hasn't completed her running responsibilities is still a runner, despite having touched home, if she attempts to return to complete them. By reversing, she undoes the run, which run can only then score by returning to home prior to the 3rd out.

If she reverses after having completed her running responsibilities, she is an already scored runner, her reversal does not undo the run, but she can be called for interfering with another play.

If she does not reverse, her running violations are subject to appeal, including a fourth out appeal.

New red herring; on reversing to correct a running violation, doesn't she also have to retouch home on the reverse trip back to third? Couldn't there also be an appeal for that as a missed base? I don't believe any part of the prior thread stated if she did that.