Whats the call?

[DaveASA/FED]

Batter hits a ground ball dribbler in foul territory down first base line and runs into F3 as she is attempting to field the ball. The ball is first touched in foul territory by F1 who is coming further up the line and fields the ball that F3 missed due to the contact.

So what is your call?

[SRW]

Out.
ASA 8-2-F(1)

[DaveASA/FED]

Well SRW that's one way to look at it, any other votes?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Well SRW that's one way to look at it, any other votes?

I agree with SRW as to how I will continue to call it on the field. However, as was pointed out in the other thread where I also said I was going to ignore the book and call it as intended: 8-2-F is interference by the batter runner. 8-2-1 defines when the batter becomes a batter-runner. Hitting a foul ball doesn't qualify.

Nonetheless, in spite of not getting much response there, I believe this is how people are actually calling it. Note, I'd also apply the definition of foul here to the batter in a similar disregard for the book. That is this is a foul ball as soon as the interference occurs so no subsequent action counts just as if any runner had committed the interference. So I'd be sending runners back to TOP not last base touched before the interference. (Not that these would be different in an OP like this.)
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Medical marihuana dispensory

[Texasbock]

Just thinking out loud without benefit of scripture and verse of the rulebook......

As PU, I would be interested in how far foul the ball actually is. (i.e.) Is it one of those squibblers that has potential to roll in fair territory but did not because the batter-runner interfered with the play? (Then I think you could definitely have interference - judgment call) or Is it several feet foul where there was no possible way the ball could be fair in your judgment, (Then I would think you would rule a foul ball......)

Now, y'all can all beat me up....

[NCASAUmp]

How far in foul territory a ball is makes no difference on the call (unless it's in dead ball territory). A ball dribbling down the line in foul territory is not fair or foul until something MAKES it fair or foul. 8-2-F does not require the ball to be a fair batted ball.

I've got an out on the B/R for INT, and all other runners returning to their previously-touched bases as per 8-2-F.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

How far in foul territory a ball is makes no difference on the call (unless it's in dead ball territory). A ball dribbling down the line in foul territory is not fair or foul until something MAKES it fair or foul. 8-2-F does not require the ball to be a fair batted ball.

I've got an out on the B/R for INT, and all other runners returning to their previously-touched bases as per 8-2-F.

Except, that you don't have a BR, because he hasn't met any of the terms in 8-1.
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Sinthia cam

[mdntranger]

8-1-A states that a batter becomes a batter runner as soon as the batter legally hits a fair ball.

8-2 specifically deals with a batter-runner.

Foul Ball Definition D: A batted ball that while over foul territory, a runner interferes with a defensive player attempting to field a batted ball.

I may be overthinking this...but...since the batter never became a batter-runner (the ball was not fair....ever). By definition, this ball becomes a foul ball the moment interference occurs. Since there's no play to be had on a foul ball, there is no further penalty other than resetting for the next pitch according to the appropriate foul ball rules (fast pitch vs. slow pitch).

I'm going to go with that this would be a foul ball, reset and play on.

[NCASAUmp]

I think you're both overthinking it. The ball, up until the moment of INT, was neither fair nor foul.

I'll draw another parallel. Batter hits a pop fly ball that appears that it will land 3' foul of 1B. F3 goes to catch it easily, but the BR screams as the ball is about to reach F3's glove. F3 drops the ball.

You're telling me that because the ball was in foul territory that you'll call it foul?

[Texasbock]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

How far in foul territory a ball is makes no difference on the call (unless it's in dead ball territory). A ball dribbling down the line in foul territory is not fair or foul until something MAKES it fair or foul. 8-2-F does not require the ball to be a fair batted ball.

How does a ball dribble down the line in foul territory?

I've got an out on the B/R for INT, and all other runners returning to their previously-touched bases as per 8-2-F.

If the batter fouls one off in the dirt and the catcher reaches down on the ground to field the foul ball in the dirt and the batter haphazardly gets in her way, are you going to rule INT at that point?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Texasbock

How does a ball dribble down the line in foul territory?

Okay, Mr. Picky-Pants. Dribbling near the line.

Originally Posted by Texasbock

If the batter fouls one off in the dirt and the catcher reaches down on the ground to field the foul ball in the dirt and the batter haphazardly gets in her way, are you going to rule INT at that point?

Hell no. And it's called survival.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I'll draw another parallel. Batter hits a pop fly ball that appears that it will land 3' foul of 1B. F3 goes to catch it easily, but the BR screams as the ball is about to reach F3's glove. F3 drops the ball.

I don't think that is remotely parallel, since in your situation, the ball could be caught to retire the batter. In the OP, the ball was on the ground in foul territory when it was first contacted by the defense. The B/R cannot be retired in this situation.

I have a foul ball.

[MNBlue]

ASA 8.2.F.1
Batter-Runner is out:

When the batter-runner interferes with:
1. a fielder attempting to field a batted ball.


I think the problem is in that because the batter contacted the ball with the bat, they are a batter-runner. Not entirely true. The definition of a batter-runner is: A player who has completed a turn at bat but has not yet been put out or reached first base. 8.1.A states: The batter becomes a batter-runner: as soon as the batter legally hits a fair ball.

Since the ball is not in fair territory, the batter never completed the time at bat, nor did the batter become a batter-runner.

Just my $.02.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

Batter hits a ground ball dribbler in foul territory down first base line and runs into F3 as she is attempting to field the ball. The ball is first touched in foul territory by F1 who is coming further up the line and fields the ball that F3 missed due to the contact.

So what is your call?

Conundrum.

If you rule INT, the ball is foul since it is dead upon the INT call, touched or not.

You cannot have INT on a foul ball since there is no play or out to be made on any foul ball.

[CecilOne]

A batted ball in flight or dribbling near the line or wherever else is not foul until it meets one of the foul ball criteria.

We have concluded in at least two other topics that the B to BR transition happens even though the batted ball does not end up being a fair batted ball; because it is not foul until the foul ball criteria apply and because it must be for the application of rules to make sense.

In this OP, the player who batted the ball, now the BR, interfered with F3 trying to field the batted ball, so the player who interfered is out, any other runner(s) return.