whats the call?

[wilkey1979]

I made a call tonight in a game and would like your advice A1 and A2 are under the goal going for a rebound the ball bounces off their hands and B1 from the opposing team saves the ball going out of bounds, but going out of bounds it looks to me that he stepped on the line, before i know it he is calling a timeout, it happened so quickly i called no timeout because it looked liked he stepped on the line bofore he tried to call timeout. I gave it to the defending team the coach throws a fit saying that he called the timeout while jumping out of bounds. I get overuled by the other official which gives them the timeout. I go up to the official and told him why I called the way i did anyway i thought i made the right call. I thought if a player attempts to save the ball but he steps on the line it is a dead ball and the other team gets it. your advice would be appreciated.

[WinterWillie]

Originally posted by wilkey1979
I made a call tonight in a game and would like your advice . your advice would be appreciated.

You done good.

[One-Whistle]

Here are some of the questions that I have about this play.

For your "partner" to be right; B1 would need to take possession of the ball before his foot was on the line and Team B would need to request a timeout PRIOR to B1's contact on the OOB line.)

Last and most important (in my mind), why is your "partner" overruling you? My partner would need to convince me that s/he clearly had the TO request before B1 was OOB.

[Forksref]

Assuming that Wilkey got it right and the player stepped OOB prior to the TO, do you still honor the TO request?

Also, similar to this play, I've seenosome plays where the player 'saves' the ball by jumping and throwing it back inbounds while in the player is in the air, but the player actually took off from OOB. I've seen this missed several times.

[Blackhawk357]

Hello again, board. I've been gone for a while, but I can't help but comment here.
I like One-Whistle's rationale, I would add one line of thought:
~Put yourself in the position of Wilkey's partner for a second.
~ If the ball is on Wilkey's sideline (assuming a 2-whistle game) where does his partner come off over-ruling him.
~ I can gaurentee you that I will let my partner have that call. Opposite sideline to make a call that close? No way!
~ Two principle guidelines (respect you partner's sideline, and trust your partner) were violated.

I'm with WinterWillie, you done good, wilkey.

Blackhawk

[Edited by Blackhawk357 on Feb 24th, 2004 at 11:12 PM]

[One-Whistle]

Originally posted by Forksref
Assuming that Wilkey got it right and the player stepped OOB prior to the TO, do you still honor the TO request?

Since the ball is now "dead", I would again ask the coach if he wanted the TO. If yes, grant it. If not, we're putting it in play (with Team A inbounding.)

[SMEngmann]

I would be absolutely furious if my partner attempted to overrule me on a play like that and we'd definitely have words about it in the locker room later. The partner could have been unsure and come to you asking if you heard the timeout request, leaving the call to you. After the explanation of what you saw, he had no business doing what he did, but that's why if there's a confusion, the officials come together and the calling official changes the call if necessary. Also, it may have helped to try to sell the OOB call by emphatically pointing to the spot where the player stepped out. That could eliminate a lot of the confusion.

[Rich]

Originally posted by SMEngmann
I would be absolutely furious if my partner attempted to overrule me on a play like that and we'd definitely have words about it in the locker room later. The partner could have been unsure and come to you asking if you heard the timeout request, leaving the call to you. After the explanation of what you saw, he had no business doing what he did, but that's why if there's a confusion, the officials come together and the calling official changes the call if necessary. Also, it may have helped to try to sell the OOB call by emphatically pointing to the spot where the player stepped out. That could eliminate a lot of the confusion.

It wouldn't happen to me. I'd tell my partner what I had and what we were going with.

I remember I had a similar thing happen about my third year of officiating. I was working a varsity game with a very veteran partner. I clearly missed a ball hitting a wire above the backboard on a shot. The ball went in and I counted it. The gym was very dark, but I knew pretty quickly that I had kicked it. Next time down the floor, the ball goes out of bounds -- clearly tipped by A. My partner tweets his whistle several times and emphatically points towards B. Figuring I missed it, I went with his call. At halftime he told me it was a "make up call." Had no respect for this bozo from that point on.

Although I'd probably get tricked like this again (I always tell partners to come in strong if I clearly kick one) I refuse to be browbeaten on something like the original post where I got it right.

Earlier this season, there was a long rebound -- A gets the ball with both feet clearly in frontcourt and then one foot steps back and causes a violation. I'm the trail and make the call -- standing right at the center line. L partner hits his whistle several times and comes and asks me what I had on the play. I just looked at him and told him what I had. I wanted to puke on his shoes, though.

The other official has no standing to "overrule" you on that play. You judged that there was no timeout before the player stepped out of bounds and that's the end of it.