Did anybody see...

[Dakota]

Funny... the game suspension caused no controversy in the heartland beyond pretty straightforward reporting of the situation... must be an Philly and the 'burbs issue.

There was one silly comment that the Rays scoring in the top of the 6th took the pretend commissioner "off the hook" regarding declaring the game official.

Personally, I'm all for any situation that shows up the pretend commissioner for the inept sleeze that he is. Too bad he didn't declare the game official and the series over.

[NCASAUmp]

Hey, damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you were behind the plate in an 18U Gold National Championship in OKC in the top of the 6th inning, and the visitors tied it up with field conditions as bad as last night's and NO chance of improvement in the weather... What would you do?

Look, he made the right call, and it's his call to make. You'd get pissed if someone criticized you for making your own calls, so why criticize him?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Hey, damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you were behind the plate in an 18U Gold National Championship in OKC in the top of the 6th inning, and the visitors tied it up with field conditions as bad as last night's and NO chance of improvement in the weather... What would you do?

Look, he made the right call, and it's his call to make. You'd get pissed if someone criticized you for making your own calls, so why criticize him?

You misunderstand. I wasn't criticizing his decision to suspend the game; it was the right thing to do (perhaps a nit could be picked that it was a little too late...).

I was hoping he would declare the game official, take the Rays run off the board, and declare the Phillies the World Champions because of the s---storm that would follow... all directed at the pretend commissioner. IMO, He is a sleazy individual who has not done anything in "the best interest of baseball" his entire time in office, including his time as acting commissioner (at least then his title was honest).

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Dakota

IMO, He is a sleazy individual who has not done anything in "the best interest of baseball" his entire time in office, including his time as acting commissioner (at least then his title was honest).

I'm just curious as to what you have based your opinions on. Personally, I have no real issues with the job Selig has done as commish. Certainly not as much as I had with say, Ford Frick and his *.

Selig has overseen the financial turnaround of baseball with a 400 percent increase in the revenue of MLB and annual record breaking attendance. Look at the state the game was in during the late 80's and early 90's. If for no other reason, his tenure could be termed a "success" because of this. He also introduced the Wild Card, a move that has not only involved more fans being interested in post season play, but has also led to some interesting and exciting stories of post season play. (Case in point both Marlins' WS titles.) Yes, he is more loved by the owners than anyone else involved with the game, largely because of his perspectives as a one time baseball owner himself. And yes, there have been some downsides to his tenure as well, but no more than some others we could name.

[Skahtboi]

By the way, I am just looking at my above post from a historical perspective as far as the game goes, without any concern of "personalities" of various commissioners.

[IRISHMAFIA]

If anyone is wondering why SteveM isn't posting, it is because he is probably out shoveling snow. Weather reports from his area are mentioning 6-7 inches of snow so far today.

BTW, the Tampa team had no hotel last night. The team checked out prior to the game, anticipating flying out of Philadelphia after the game. They could not find any rooms in the Philly area, so they ended up at the Hotel Dupont in Wilmington, DE. I wonder if they have checked out already, assuming a flight home or are holding the rooms, just in case they do not play. It is still raining in Philly, and snowing just North of the city.

They really need to back off the length of the season.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

I'm just curious as to what you have based your opinions on. Personally, I have no real issues with the job Selig has done as commish. Certainly not as much as I had with say, Ford Frick and his *.

Selig has overseen the financial turnaround of baseball with a 400 percent increase in the revenue of MLB and annual record breaking attendance. Look at the state the game was in during the late 80's and early 90's. If for no other reason, his tenure could be termed a "success" because of this. He also introduced the Wild Card, a move that has not only involved more fans being interested in post season play, but has also led to some interesting and exciting stories of post season play. (Case in point both Marlins' WS titles.) Yes, he is more loved by the owners than anyone else involved with the game, largely because of his perspectives as a one time baseball owner himself. And yes, there have been some downsides to his tenure as well, but no more than some others we could name.

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

By the way, I am just looking at my above post from a historical perspective as far as the game goes, without any concern of "personalities" of various commissioners.

Until recently, he was the owner of the Brewers. The "ownership" by his daughter was a sham. He was the owner. He and Carl Pohlad collaborated to use MLB money to both enrich Pohlad and contract the Twins. Pohlad viewed this as win-win... either he gets more for the team than he could by selling it to a real buyer, or he succeeds in browbeating local politicians into building him a stadium.

Selig's much ballyhooed financial "success" of MLB was engineered on the backs of chemical abuse by the players, which he turned a blind eye to until he was forced to face up to it (sort of).

As acting commissioner, he presided over the only complete cancellation of the postseason, including the world series, because of the strike of 1994. The strike was long and bitter, brought on by a well-deserved complete distrust of Selig by the player's union... Selig had been caught colluding with owners to rig the signing of free agents. The 1994 strike was forced to end when federal judge Sonia Sotomayor issued a preliminary injunction against the owners on March 31, 1995.

Shall I go on?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

As acting commissioner, he presided over the only complete cancellation of the postseason, including the world series, because of the strike of 1994. The strike was long and bitter, brought on by a well-deserved complete distrust of Selig by the player's union... Selig had been caught colluding with owners to rig the signing of free agents. The 1994 strike was forced to end when federal judge Sonia Sotomayor issued a preliminary injunction against the owners on March 31, 1995.

Shall I go on?

Sorry, but this would have happened no matter who was sitting in the commissioner's office. I agree with your assessment of the "position" he was dropped into by his cronies, it is a sham.

Personally, I think the owners got screwed by the judge as I do not believe she has any authority over a private business. And before you bring up their anti-trust exemption, there is no inherent right of ANYONE to play, umpire, watch or make money off of a child's game being played by overgrown, overpaid babies.

If the owners were smart, which IMO they are not, they would take that anti-trust exemption and tell congress where to put it. Granted, it would be more difficult to obtain aid and financing by the local governments, but so be it. They don't need to pay the prima donnas all that money.

[Dakota]

I happen to agree with your view that the judiciary overstepped, but (IMO) if the owners, led by the pretend commissioner, had not engaged in unfair labor practices and other shenanigans, the judge would not have had the excuse.

As to the antitrust exception, since when does a private business even need be concerned with antitrust issues with how it handles internal financial issues? Antitrust concerns how a company colludes with competitors (e.g price fixing or market dividing) or how it tries to engage in monolopy practices with competitors. The problem with this model of business behavior with professional sports teams is that no MLB team is a BUSINESS competitor of any other... they are sports competitors but not business competitors. This is easy to demonstrate: what would the NY Yankee$ do if they drove all of the other MLB teams out of business? The business entity in professional sports is the league, not the individual team. This also means that the whole free agent system is also a misapplication of federal labor law to professional sports. JMO.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Shall I go on?

You could, but I could also counter with his so called successes. My point is, look at the history of the game. It is rife with conflict and greedy owners manuevering to get more for less out of the players. There also exist all sorts of conspiracies by owners throughout time and collusion by the very people entrusted to prevent these sorts of things. (League presidents, when they existed, and commissioners.) Do you really think the names Landis and Frick and Kuhn are any more deserving of respect than Selig?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

You could, but I could also counter with his so called successes. My point is, look at the history of the game. It is rife with conflict and greedy owners manuevering to get more for less out of the players. There also exist all sorts of conspiracies by owners throughout time and collusion by the very people entrusted to prevent these sorts of things. (League presidents, when they existed, and commissioners.) Do you really think the names Landis and Frick and Kuhn are any more deserving of respect than Selig?

I'd put the pretend commissioner at the bottom of the list in terms of integrity and operating in the "best interests of baseball" of any MLB commissioner in my time as a somewhat informed fan (meaning my adulthood).

I realize that last sentiment ("best interests...") is ill-defined and has been used in the past for all kinds of power plays, etc., but apart from his seeming near complete lack of any personal integrity (based on his actions), he has failed the game in many, many ways from the hostile attitude toward the players union, to the lack of any real check on the free-spending ways of the Yankee$ and the Red $ox, to encouraging (at best through knowing wink-wink, at worst through collusion) the use of performance enhancing drugs to rebuild fan interest after he presided over the near destruction of the game.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Hey, damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you were behind the plate in an 18U Gold National Championship in OKC in the top of the 6th inning, and the visitors tied it up with field conditions as bad as last night's and NO chance of improvement in the weather... What would you do?

Look, he made the right call, and it's his call to make. You'd get pissed if someone criticized you for making your own calls, so why criticize him?

Well, if I were behind the plate doing the 18U Gold National:
1. We'd obviously have to be in a parallel universe, cuz they ain't stickin someone like me back there in this universe.
2. It would be MY call to make on whether it's playable.

There's no doubt the game should have been called. I wish MLB would be smart enuf to have a rule that if it's suspended you pick it up from that spot when you are in the World Serious. This isn't the first time we've dealt with bad conditions and tried to play...maybe the worst, but not the only.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

Well, if the game had been called after 5 with the score 2-1 Phillies (after 4-1/2 actually), the game would be over under OBR. I read today that Bud said he would not have allowed the World Series to end like that. Well, Bud, that would mean making up rules as you go along in the middle of the World Series. It probably is for the best that the Rays were able to tie it.

Well, a 72 hour rain delay is not in the rule book, either. In fact, there is no time limit on a rain delay. That the pretend commissioner was having the game continue in unplayable conditions just to avoid having to actually step forward and make a courageous decision is no surprise.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Well, a 72 hour rain delay is not in the rule book, either. In fact, there is no time limit on a rain delay. That the pretend commissioner was having the game continue in unplayable conditions just to avoid having to actually step forward and make a courageous decision is no surprise.

Whoops, I deleted my post because I heard him clarify that he would suspend the game for as long as it took and I already got quoted. And you're right--a game can be suspended as long as he wants to suspend it, and now the rules support him. Good job, Bud!

Of course, Bud's tendency to take the path of least resistance might come in handy for him if he wanted to try umpiring.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

Whoops, I deleted my post because I heard him clarify that he would suspend the game for as long as it took and I already got quoted. And you're right--a game can be suspended as long as he wants to suspend it, and now the rules support him. Good job, Bud!

Actually, the rule (4.12) is clear and Selig really didn't have a choice.

Everyone acts like there was some super tough decision made here, yet it is no more of a tough decision then we all make all the time on the field without the support of a commissioner and huge support staff.